How do you Forgive and let go?

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Depends entirely on your usage. "Forgive" can be both a transitive and intransitive verb though I can't think of its intransitive use. Maybe if you just say "I forgive" with no actual or implied predicate but is that feasible? Forgiving someone something or forgiving something is its common use so maybe it's just a quirk definition in spiritual circles where the object is effectively an abstract (i.e. it matters not how they react).

As I see it, what you describe is "letting go" - rendering an issue no longer relevant to your emotions (presumably) so you no longer feel the pain. Your interpretation is no less valid. Like I said up there, it's how you run your life.

I feel the intransitive use is moot, for what is there to forgive if there is nothing to forgive?

As to how you run your life, I think that goes back to what you said in another thread, about knowing what you want.

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

If you really have never seen someone become a doormat by forgiving someone something they later do again I'd be very surprised. I have. Several times.

This reflects a deeper problem, as I feel it gets to the issue of discerning correct action. If one really understands the situation and alternatives, that is one thing. If one is just reacting to pain and wants it to stop without consideration to consequences, that's another.

As I said, forgiveness is not about being a doormat or condoning an action. One can 'let go' of injury but retain the sense to avoid a repeat of the situation. True forgiveness is to take responsibility for oneself. To do otherwise is not, IMO.

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

What if you aren't defined by pain & anger?

Then what is there to forgive?

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

I believe that some of these ideas were promoted by monks who did nothing all day but contemplate existence. Retribution could be as simple as finding out who the culprit is & holding them accountable.

I don't think so. Have you ever been divorced? I have. Monks have never been divorced, but these concepts helped me immensely.

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

They maybe your trusting friend to your face, how can you begin to understand unless you seek answers. The friend might have awful debt or drug problems that you are blind to or they may feel empowered by getting away with it & hurt someone far more vulnerable because of it.

Do not start out thinking people are just what you think they are. Get to know them first. Trust people to be who they are. You will never be disappointed.

Originally Posted by knightoflenity

Negative may come from doing nothing, who knows?

If the theft eats away at you then perhaps it is became your subconscious knows something ...

Your lesson maybe that you are too trusting or that there were warning signs that you ignored but the niggling feeling isn't necessarily just anger related.

The victim in any situation has suffered - let's not forget that its only human to not wish to suffer & to naturally question why ...

Not sure what you're getting at here. Perhaps you could clarify a bit?


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[dream jo]

wish i cud 2 but man it robed me i so mad at h conded me frobbed me of mp monny its got me so mad can not fogiv i can not im not goij sya no mor bt im so fed up i am wz robd by sum junki pepel say ty hav fealis 2 im l no thy nt car abot eple pele th robd th dnt
sorry if sayin ong hns thngs i am

[dream jo]

Originally Posted by dream jo

wish i cud 2 but man it robed me i so mad at h conded me frobbed me of mp monny its got me so mad can not fogiv i can not im not goij sya no mor bt im so fed up i am wz robd by sum junki pepel say ty hav fealis 2 im l no thy nt car abot eple pele th robd th dnt
sorry if sayin ong hns thngs i am

sisne ths hapend 2 me im so bitr angryy i am frm may 2017 its ntrd me in 2 a mostr u cud say
iv always bean mstundstid i hav
but ths is realy lft e me mad

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by bloke

That's a pretty insensitive post you've made there, Miss H.
Imo.

Wanna expound more...we can all learn from our different views. Thanks

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Wanna expound more...we can all learn from our different views. Thanks

Curious, I took a step back to look.

I think your post Miss H is not technically incorrect, but perhaps situationally misstated...

The fact is it is a shared universe. That means I can affect you, you can affect me. We share the universe with everything - each other, all sentient life, all non-sentient life, all matter...

I believe everything comes from the same Source. In this way we are all responsible for ourselves and each other - but it is an academic sense, a sense which is technically correct, but in practice makes little difference under the setup where we all believe we are separate entities with a separate genesis and separate views.

In this sense, the practical, physical sense, given to us by S/He that set up the setup, we are not entirely responsible for everything that happens to us.

What we ARE responsible for, IMO, is ourselves. For this, we have no excuse. Now, it may be true that as 'individuals' we could at times lack maturity or capability to handle what comes our way. Still, at fault is our immaturity and lack of capability if we fail. That's not a PERSONAL FAILING necessarily, it just means we were unable to meet our burden. It happens all the time, but is just divine FAIRNESS meted out on a totally (where our consciousness currently resides) unforeseeable basis.

Crying about that is just crying about spilt milk. That's just the price we pay for free agency and an open destiny as INDIVIDUALS. That's just the way it is.

BUT we do, with strength and maturity, realize our self-responsibility. Something bad happen to us? Well, we could let it define us for the rest of our lives, or we could choose to move on. Of course there are a lot of things resisting us doing that - our own self importance, psychological processes such as PTSD, self pity, simple ignorance of how to move forward, etc. etc. - but these are all problems with gifts to bestow if we can find the fortitude to move forward.

IMO, THAT is what the ancient sages meant when they said we are 'responsible' for everything that happens to us. Obviously we are not omnipotent, so how could we be responsible for EVERYTHING? To expect more from a consciousness who is unconscious of the higher perspective is hardly sympathetic, IMO.

I hope I've made a good case for both how that is so, and how it's not.


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[DalesRealMeditation]

Originally Posted by MyJourneyHasBegan

Hi all,

With everything going on in the world, i know this might seem insignificant but how do i start by forgiving someone.

I have recently discovered that some of my personal belongings have been taken from my home. I realize that it is material things and so many people have lost more in the recent disasters that has happened but i still feel so angry.
Angry that someone came into my home, my safe space and went through my personal belongings. Things that have been taken have sentimental value. I've cried, i've been angry. I've wished so many bad things on the person but i dont want to feel this way.
A part of me hopes that the person really needed money and it being use for something positive but another big part is so mad.
I dont want these negative feelings, i've realized that i'm degressing in my journey and all these negative thoughts are coming back.

I guess it just want to talk to someone and let it out.

To anyone reading this thank you for listening.

Love and Blessings
M

late to the party here, but here goes:

we can't stop the pain of life (especially unfortunate calamities) but it doesn't have to degress us on our path.

we can feel the initial pain and anger without clinging to it. naturally, it will subside with time.

part of forgiveness is not wishing ill will on them; i.e. we don't forgive them because they deserve it, we forgive them because they wronged us.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Kioma

Then what is there to forgive?.

The OP feels the requirement to uphold a forgive & forget attitude - disappointment can be a large factor here where you simply can't fathom why you were chosen by the theif. Speaking generally regarding forgive & forget your not always going to be angry but disappointed.

Originally Posted by Kioma

I don't think so. Have you ever been divorced? I have. Monks have never been divorced, but these concepts helped me immensely.
.

But the concepts didn't help the relationship? Ah monks don't have relationships they view from afar.

Originally Posted by Kioma

Do not start out thinking people are just what you think they are. Get to know them first. Trust people to be who they are. You will never be disappointed.

Is that a direct quote from somewhere - again its not really true - a person in a plane crash isn't a cannibal but circumstance drives the need to survive. People act & react to situations & circumstances. I have stolen but am not a theif by nature.

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Originally Posted by dream jo

sisne ths hapend 2 me im so bitr angryy i am frm may 2017 its ntrd me in 2 a mostr u cud say
iv always bean mstundstid i hav
but ths is realy lft e me mad

There is nothing wrong with you and how you deal with your situation, dream jo. There's nothing wrong in feeling angry - it is just as "spiritual" as feeling "not angry".

But it is an anger you must somehow get rid of to find peace in yourself some day. There are lots of way without forgiving. If you forgave the person she or he might do it again.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I've no problem with that. In spiritual circles we can't always expect to agree. In that, I'm a bit of a loner here though I do take notice of others' views.

But.... thank you for the response.

Of course, and it wouldn't be very interesting if we did all agree! Though it's more conducive to constructive debate if we can remain civil, and respectful of one another's views, and those are qualities that I admire in you even if we often have a different take on things - so thank you, too

As far as forgiveness goes, it appears that we may have different ideas about what the word actually entails. For me it isn't about condoning the actions of another or denying the hurt that those actions might have caused us, and it doesn't mean that we're giving them the green light to wrong us again - on the contrary, oftentimes it's appropriate to leave them in no uncertain terms that another transgression will not be tolerated.

But I believe that forgiveness simply means that we're no longer holding a grudge against the person, we're fully cognisant of what they did but we're letting go of resentment, anger, bitterness, blame, and any other negativity that may be polluting our inner space (holding on to these things really is 'like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die,' as the saying goes). And as I say, what I've found in my own experience and also from observing others is that, whilst we may feel perfectly justified in harbouring such feelings towards a perceived wrong-doer, in truth it is simply the unconscious unwillingness to face the underlying pain that causes us to hold on to those feelings.

On some level, we know that underneath that negativity, there is profound grief. And we'll generally do everything in our power to not feel it, to push it away, deny it, turn away from it, until the burden of our suffering simply becomes too much to bear any longer.

And I'll say this - I know from personal experience that letting go of these feelings is not easy, I've made a concerted effort to do so recently and it's put me through the emotional ringer, I wouldn't be subjecting myself to this if I didn't know how much harm it's doing to me to hold on to them. And I haven't even suffered the depth of trauma that the girl in your zumba class suffered, so I can't imagine how difficult it might be for her, it may take years for her to make peace with what happened, if she ever does.