A Riddle from Spirit

[eatember]

Hi there. Did you ever figure out the absence part?

I usually don't talk a lot about it but I grew up in a family with sociopaths. My dad is one, my grandmother and brother have the tenancies pretty bad and when I was younger I had those tenancies too. I ended up being the only person in the family who got help. There are still little residual bits left over, mostly about the really difficult core stuff like how processing love and affection can be different. But for the most part I've healed up and moved on. People can't tell I ever was that way in the first place, mercifully, even ones I would expect to. I thought maybe my experience might be helpful, since npd is so similar.

I was trying to like...analyze the absence part and I felt like I was thinking about it too hard so I asked my friend who's known me since we were kids. (He usually feels his way around a problem when I'm trying to out-think it, lol.) We've always been able to talk and I would usually listen to him when he confronts me with things even if I would have been closed off to someone else, so I thought he was a good person to ask. He thinks it's pain and I thought that was a pretty good answer too.

We've always had such a supportive relationship, I don't think I would have ever doubted that he had good intentions when confronting me with something. And unlike with other people, I don't feel like I have to consider that he has good intentions in spite of being accidentally hurtful. Hurt feelings do happen, of course, but not because of anyone's spite or carelessness. He's tactful and has good judgment about these things. So there's a lot of trust there. A lot of emotional cushioning.

I think my point in saying all of that is, at least with me, that disorder was built from, by and run on pain. Cracking it open can be searing. Having to poke around in those wounds is bad enough when you're doing it voluntarily, imagine having them cracked open and prodded at when you didn't even know how severe they are. The surprise of the pain would be almost as bad. The shock of them when you might not know they're even there would be a whole event onto itself. I think having a space in the form of another person that's genuinely caring, well intentioned, and worthy of that kind of trust can sort-of have this effect where... it's hard to describe. I think maybe it's about empathy and it takes the sting out of things. It's the emotional difference between someone ripping you open and someone being like a comforting mother, letting you cry on their shoulder and stroking your hair. Maybe feeling searing pain is different from letting out hurt. That's the closest thing I can think of to an absence of pain in this situation. I hope the insight helps even if that's not what it is.

I would also like to second all of the cautions other people were offering though. Especially about free will and the tiger knowing its own lethality. I may not have understood the depth of which I hurt people when I was younger but I darn sure was aware that I could and at the time I wasn't sorry about it at all. I knew I could inflict some serious emotional pain and I did it anyways. I think the others here are right but as a professional you probably already know that and I respect that you may set your mind to trying anyways.

[ocean breeze]

Simply catch the tiger by the toe and if he hollers don't let him go.

Originally Posted by Sojourner2013

I’m intrigued by such an approach. Can you give me an example of how you would “derail”?

I used to have a friend who knew everything about everything, and if I tried to say anything he jumped down my throat and repeated the same thing over and over. He knew because he said so. He couldn't deal with sarcasm and his head used to 'stall', which completely knocked his train of thought off the rails. Very often if I said anything unrelated - anything at all - he wouldn't be able to process it. Once his brain stalled I was able to talk to him again for a while and the trick was to keep ahead of him, recognising when he slipping into his pattern again and side-stepping it.



Yeah it is a mind game but the other option is that you give up on them because all you're doing is banging your head against a brick wall. There's an energy system that builds up and when you recognise you're becoming caught up in it you can step out of it, or use it to your benefit.


Good luck out there.

[Sojourner2013]

Originally Posted by eatember

Hi there. Did you ever figure out the absence part?

I usually don't talk a lot about it but I grew up in a family with sociopaths. My dad is one, my grandmother and brother have the tenancies pretty bad and when I was younger I had those tenancies too. I ended up being the only person in the family who got help. There are still little residual bits left over, mostly about the really difficult core stuff like how processing love and affection can be different. But for the most part I've healed up and moved on. People can't tell I ever was that way in the first place, mercifully, even ones I would expect to. I thought maybe my experience might be helpful, since npd is so similar.

I was trying to like...analyze the absence part and I felt like I was thinking about it too hard so I asked my friend who's known me since we were kids. (He usually feels his way around a problem when I'm trying to out-think it, lol.) We've always been able to talk and I would usually listen to him when he confronts me with things even if I would have been closed off to someone else, so I thought he was a good person to ask. He thinks it's pain and I thought that was a pretty good answer too.

We've always had such a supportive relationship, I don't think I would have ever doubted that he had good intentions when confronting me with something. And unlike with other people, I don't feel like I have to consider that he has good intentions in spite of being accidentally hurtful. Hurt feelings do happen, of course, but not because of anyone's spite or carelessness. He's tactful and has good judgment about these things. So there's a lot of trust there. A lot of emotional cushioning.

I think my point in saying all of that is, at least with me, that disorder was built from, by and run on pain. Cracking it open can be searing. Having to poke around in those wounds is bad enough when you're doing it voluntarily, imagine having them cracked open and prodded at when you didn't even know how severe they are. The surprise of the pain would be almost as bad. The shock of them when you might not know they're even there would be a whole event onto itself. I think having a space in the form of another person that's genuinely caring, well intentioned, and worthy of that kind of trust can sort-of have this effect where... it's hard to describe. I think maybe it's about empathy and it takes the sting out of things. It's the emotional difference between someone ripping you open and someone being like a comforting mother, letting you cry on their shoulder and stroking your hair. Maybe feeling searing pain is different from letting out hurt. That's the closest thing I can think of to an absence of pain in this situation. I hope the insight helps even if that's not what it is.

I would also like to second all of the cautions other people were offering though. Especially about free will and the tiger knowing its own lethality. I may not have understood the depth of which I hurt people when I was younger but I darn sure was aware that I could and at the time I wasn't sorry about it at all. I knew I could inflict some serious emotional pain and I did it anyways. I think the others here are right but as a professional you probably already know that and I respect that you may set your mind to trying anyways.

Wow, that's amazing that you have such awareness about your development, especially your lack of empathy. Cudos to you for seeking help, as most people coming from such toxic environments can't trust anyone enough to discuss their problems/families.

No, I have no intentions of approaching this individual, as I mentioned in a previous post. He is aware of his issues, but the reason he's come to my attention is that he just got engaged to his gf who suffers from depression and suicidal tendencies. Hence, the family is worried about this idea because their history is fraught with some very dramatic and toxic events.

Recently, I watched Simon Sinek's video about the impact of social media/internet on young people. His theory is that we, as a society, are actually creating more narcissistic and depressive people due to the addictions to social media/internet. It's a fascinating, insightful video--probably the most interesting video on psychology that I've watched in years--here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hER0Qp6QJNU

Hence, all the interest in NPD. If he's correct, we will be dealing a lot with the ramifications of narcissism, depression and poor communication skills as a society. So, that is why I believe Spirit wants me to figure out this riddle. NOt to address it with an actual person, but to see that it's a spiritual issue first and then a societal issue.

As for the word 'absence', i've got several ideas going: absence of a kill? Absence of empathy? Could be absence of pain. Absence of freedom (to express?)...

[Sojourner2013]

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

Simply catch the tiger by the toe and if he hollers don't let him go.

Haha! That's a little too deep for me, above my paygrade...

[Sojourner2013]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I used to have a friend who knew everything about everything, and if I tried to say anything he jumped down my throat and repeated the same thing over and over. He knew because he said so. He couldn't deal with sarcasm and his head used to 'stall', which completely knocked his train of thought off the rails. Very often if I said anything unrelated - anything at all - he wouldn't be able to process it. Once his brain stalled I was able to talk to him again for a while and the trick was to keep ahead of him, recognising when he slipping into his pattern again and side-stepping it.



Yeah it is a mind game but the other option is that you give up on them because all you're doing is banging your head against a brick wall. There's an energy system that builds up and when you recognise you're becoming caught up in it you can step out of it, or use it to your benefit.


Good luck out there.

I understand what you're saying here. It would be energetically draining.

Most people demonize NPD, but from my perspective the Narcissist needs the Sensitive (my term for an empath who doesn't know he/she is an empath) and the Sensitive needs the Narcissist. The couple is the perfect storm of co-dependent patterns. Until one realizes that he/she must grow by getting help, usually it is the Sensitive.

[Sapphirez]

thanks for the laugh out loud ocean breeze lol!

well you could also ask the tiger bubble gum bubble gum in a dish how many pieces do you wish and keep feeding him gum til his mouth is full and then he tries to get it out with his paws and his claws get coated in gum and his teeth are sticky full of it too and either he will be too preoccupied and muzzled to bite or scratch anyone, or he will bite his own toe and then he will know his own lethalness

hmm this talk about Narcissist and Sensitives makes me think of this thing from The Celestine Prophecy that talks of Control Dramas. and that everyone exhibits traits from a specific one the most, and there are counter ones such as with the two you mentioned.
There is the poor me, which is probably like the Sensitive, the Intimidator which is likely the Narcissist, then there is the Aloof, and lastly Interrogator. which those two are opposite each other also. not sure if it is relevant or anything but the post made me think of it so thought I'd bring it up. If you never read or heard of it the Celestine Prophecy is a book from the 90s that is real simple or perhaps you could say juvenilely written and predictable in ways, but overall I found it profound when it was recommended to me when I was first waking up. and as I progressed on my journey I realized it was sharing more and more truth, like the consciousness of plants are mentioned in there and all sorts of things.. but I think the Control Dramas are valuable to look into.


I am glad you overcame your sordid roots too eatember. it is like the phoenix rising from the ashes and now you have even more beauty and power to share with others than you might've otherwise.. but it is still painful to know that others are hurting or stuck in living unbecoming ways.. at least you are a better influence on them

[ocean breeze]

You welcome.


All this about narcissism reminds me of The Narcissist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LJICfoPmrs

Praying for you to get your answer.

Originally Posted by Sojourner2013

I understand what you're saying here. It would be energetically draining.

Most people demonize NPD, but from my perspective the Narcissist needs the Sensitive (my term for an empath who doesn't know he/she is an empath) and the Sensitive needs the Narcissist. The couple is the perfect storm of co-dependent patterns. Until one realizes that he/she must grow by getting help, usually it is the Sensitive.

Once you understand that the reason you find it draining is because you engage subconsciously with the energy system you can step out of it completely. That can be quite an interesting experience of its own because it's quite Spiritual. You become not the doer but the observer of both the doer (yourself) and what's being done.


I think God's version of watching a movie is putting someone with NPD and a Sensitive together in the same place, because that's always fireworks. But if you watch the forums often you can see the patterns emerging, so really we're all prone to them somewhere along the line - until you realise that you're in one and you step out of it.