Rich man and poor Lazarus

[ThatMan]

How do you see this story?


For me, this is a very interesting story.

[Tuesday]

How is it interesting to you?

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by Tuesday

How is it interesting to you?

First of all, there are countless verses who talk about the fact that those who are dead, good or bad, are fallen asleep...

Ecclesiastes 9:10 "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going"

Sheol = Hades, the rich man was in Hades, and he was very much alive, able to think.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. "

This verse suggests that the dust ( the human body ) return back to Earth as it was and the spirit ( what spirit? ) returns to God who gave it, in fact, if you look at Ecclesiates 12:6 it talks about the silver cord, which is like an infinite invisible wire that connects the spirit with the physical body so it may be that the spirit of man goes back to God.

I sensed the silver cord several times, I was never able to see it, but to sense it, and this happened when I had my first OBE and some time later on.

I can go on but I think it's better to go slowly and to discuss together these things and the story.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

How do you see this story?


For me, this is a very interesting story.

You can interpret this Parable in many was, my personal understanding is it referring to Spiritual wealth and Physical wealth, I haven't read all of it so I could be wrong.

[Tuesday]

I would agree with sky about the spiritual and physical wealth.
Spiritual wealth is the poor man, to me it's actually a parable. The "being poor" means having little attachments, having little fears and desires eg being rich in spirit or rich with Gods light since there is nothing to stop it from shining.
The rich man on the other hand had many of these things (attachments, fears, desires), so he was poor in spiritual sense and went to "hell", or was already in there since what we call hell is not a place but a way of being. Heaven is bathing in gods light and not a place just like hell.

Also. Having material wealth doesn't mean we aren't suffering. Also having nothing in material doesn't mean you don't prosper.

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Here are the verses

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

[ThatMan]

You have good answers, I was really more focused on what after they passed from this world, but you helped me see more into this story.

[theophilus]

Most people call this a parable but I see no indication that this is correct. When Jesus told parables he told of something his hearers knew about from experience and then showed a spiritual meaning. In this account he went directly to something his audience knew nothing about.

The Old Testament speaks of all who die, whether they are good or bad, going to a place called Sheol that is located somewhere under the earth. In Greek this place is called Hades. The fact that the rich man could see and speak to Lazarus and Abraham shows they were all in the same place, just in different parts.

When Jesus paid for our sins by his death on the cross, it opened the way for the righteous to enter Paradise, in the third Heaven. Jesus told the criminal who repented that he would be there that same day. I think it is safe to assume that Abraham, Lazarus, and all the other righteous dead are now there as well.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by theophilus

Most people call this a parable but I see no indication that this is correct. When Jesus told parables he told of something his hearers knew about from experience and then showed a spiritual meaning. In this account he went directly to something his audience knew nothing about.

The Old Testament speaks of all who die, whether they are good or bad, going to a place called Sheol that is located somewhere under the earth. In Greek this place is called Hades. The fact that the rich man could see and speak to Lazarus and Abraham shows they were all in the same place, just in different parts.

When Jesus paid for our sins by his death on the cross, it opened the way for the righteous to enter Paradise, in the third Heaven. Jesus told the criminal who repented that he would be there that same day. I think it is safe to assume that Abraham, Lazarus, and all the other righteous dead are now there as well.

There's any bible verse to back up your words? Same place, different parts? I have shown how the dead are in a state of sleep, they do not think, they do not work, they do nothing there, and then we have this story, the rich man and poor Lazaurs, that at first glance, contradicts the so many verses that talk about those who are dead that they are sleeping...

Ecclesiastes 9:10 "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going"

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by ThatMan

There's any bible verse to back up your words? Same place, different parts? I have shown how the dead are in a state of sleep, they do not think, they do not work, they do nothing there, and then we have this story, the rich man and poor Lazaurs, that at first glance, contradicts the so many verses that talk about those who are dead that they are sleeping...

Ecclesiastes 9:10 "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going"

The statements that speak of the dead not doing anything refer to their inability to affect anything in this world. God reveals truth a little at a time. It is only in the words of Jesus that we have a full revelation of truth.

[ThatMan]

Originally Posted by theophilus

The statements that speak of the dead not doing anything refer to their inability to affect anything in this world. God reveals truth a little at a time. It is only in the words of Jesus that we have a full revelation of truth.

No, it says that in Sheol you can't do the things you do in this world so hurry up and do them while you can, with your might, in this world.


Ecclesiastes 9:10 "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going"

Clearly Jesus knew the whole truth about what happens when we die and that this story, rich man and poor Lazaurs, is way deeper than the literal interpretation.