Continuation of Meditation

[Gem]

After interesting talks about meditation in different contexts ranging from the Buddhist views to contemporary free styles, I return to the view that, for those who find the meditation is suitable to them, each one should undertake the practice and find a way, and not be distracted or misguided by the suggestion of others.

There is a wide range of views on it and a plethora of different techniques, but one technique contradicts another technique and they can't be reconciled.

This is why, after discussing the art, and hearing one view after another, I understand that people have a way which they have decided upon, and even if it's not particularly prudent or it's somewhat counter-productive, it's better to learn through exploration than blindly follow someone who is 'more experienced' or who give the appearance of masterdom by ordination or robes, beads and garlands. Meditation is not obedience.

I started meditation on my own and came to a point where I thought I should get some instruction. Now I am past the instruction and continue as I determine, because ultimately, nothing is ever learned through obedience and blind faith; only through self determination and discovery can this path be navigated well.

[jonesboy]

You know the Buddha said don't trust a thing I say. Test everything out.

There is a difference between a path that has been tested for thousands of years compared to the path of Gem.

The problem is you get a lot of new people here told ** like just go with what feels right. Make it up and just go for it if it feels good. All wrong answers? The path has a lot of dangers and a person could spend a lifetime going in circles.

When I talk about a system it is about do A and B will happen. Do B and C will happen. A process with expected outcomes. Safe, fast and proven.

Here most people don't even talk paths. It is a bunch of my Kung fu is better than yours. I meditate this way, no I meditate like this and my way is better. Very few people here have yet to understand there is more than just meditation to advance ones practice, state of mind.

So for some real advice. Follow a system. Test it out. Does it work? Does this style fit me? That is why there are so many paths to the same place. To find that which speaks to you. But going out and making something up is a case of wasting time.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

So for some real advice. Follow a system. Test it out. Does it work?
Does this style fit me? That is why there are so many paths to the
same place.
To find that which speaks to you.
But going out and making something up is a case of wasting time.

Hi jonesboy,
My my, that whole post was clear and direct!
I loved it!.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

You know the Buddha said don't trust a thing I say. Test everything out.

There is a difference between a path that has been tested for thousands of years compared tothe path of Gem.

I say people have a path already and don't recommend techniques.

The problem is you get a lot of new people here told ** like just go with what feels right. Make it up and just go for it if it feels good. All wrong answers? The path has a lot of dangers and a person could spend a lifetime going in circles.

Spirals seem like circles but they move upwards.

When I talk about a system it is about do A and B will happen. Do B and C will happen. A process with expected outcomes. Safe, fast and proven.

The path of jonesboy.

Here most people don't even talk paths. It is a bunch of my Kung fu is better than yours. I meditate this way, no I meditate like this and my way is better. Very few people here have yet to understand there is more than just meditation to advance ones practice, state of mind.

So for some real advice. Follow a system. Test it out. Does it work? Does this style fit me? That is why there are so many paths to the same place. To find that which speaks to you. But going out and making something up is a case of wasting time.

I think you misunderstand that when we talk about the meditation methods we simply say the meditation is practiced like this for these particular reasons... but some just follow away because it's established in antiquity.

It's actually much better to listen to no-one and just practice by feel like quiet down the mind and follow the way forward, and people find their way.

[jonesboy]

This post of yours is why no one. I mean nobody should listen to you.

I am not trying to be a jerk but anybody with a little experience in reading :) in history can understand how wrong you are.

Again, not trying to be mean just saying... Stop.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

This post of yours is why no one. I mean nobody should listen to you.

I am not trying to be a jerk but anybody with a little experience in reading :) in history can understand how wrong you are.

Again, not trying to be mean just saying... Stop.

I think you are trying not to be mean, but experience adverse feelings because what I advocate isn't systematic, but rather, a continuation of the path any person happens to be on. I also think there is a certain derision underlying the conviction that people can't find a way themselves, and will just run around in circles if they don't adhere to a system (that you approve of). The minute a person finds a way for themselves they are advised to do this follow that, and are merely distracted from their own determinations. The better way is to listen, support and encourage within the context of what the person has determined for themselves. You don't understand that and will consider anything I say to be useless, as would the other 'meditation experts' lol...

[jonesboy]

By saying so you are showing your lack of depth and experience.

Just look at people with premature crown openings.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

By saying so you are showing your lack of depth and experience.

Just look at people with premature crown openings.

I understand there can be problems with balance, and am forever saying that it comes back to cultivating the balance of mind, but think about it, people must have read this Kandalini thing, or been told to practice some kind of thing in the first place. Where did all this chakra/kandalini meditation come from. A very old system of yoga. Does AYP advocate chrakra/pranayam practices? Yep. Sure does.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

I understand there can be problems with balance, and am forever saying that it comes back to cultivating the balance of mind, but think about it, people must have read this Kandalini thing, or been told to practice some kind of thing in the first place. Where did all this chakra/kandalini meditation come from. A very old system of yoga. Does AYP advocate chrakra/pranayam practices? Yep. Sure does.

It does because it is a system of practices. If you do A, B will happen in a safe manner. Personal experience after personal experience attest to the system. You may notice on the AYP forum many people go there to get help with kundalini issues.

The difference between you and I is that I will tell someone if they are combing or confusing two methods. You will just say keep going.

For instance:

Someone saying they are staring at a candle and then just observing whatever arises is not meditating.

You told the guy good job.

I told the guy about the two methods and the systems they were each a part of to check out.

Hell, maybe I am an "expert"

[Cmt12]

People get off track because they follow their emotions. They look for a meditation technique that makes them feel better and if it does, then they decide that technique is correct.

Increasing quality of life is the end goal, but you don't get there by letting your emotions lead you. You get there by seeking truth, by connecting to your intuition and working to remove that which is disconnecting you. This requires an increasing amount of suffering.

That is the challenge: only those that are willing to listen to the soft whisper instead of loud shouting (Intuition over ego), only those that resist temptation at the expense of the real prize (resisting short term emotional impulses), only those willing to suffer and destroy parts of themselves are "worthy", only those willing to connect to faith over certainty.

If someone is willing to do what is required, then meditation technique takes care of itself. The most important thing is to not proceed down a path unless you have examined that it is true. For every step you take, you need to turn around and scrutinize it over and over looking for falsity. I've progressed because my process of accepting truth is so extensive. What I post on this forum has already been rejected many times over and has withstood the test of time. You develop a feel for intuition through experience but I've always gone above and beyond just to be sure; even when I felt comfortable accepting something as true, I was still patient. You must be PRECISE.

This is the real value in meditation - examining yourself so you can better recognize truth. The ironic thing is in this pursuit of better equipping yourself to progress in Spiritual Development, you are actually developing spiritually and walking the path. The examination is the solution.

The thing is you don't gain clarity on the entire process until you've reached the end. If Spiritual Dev is a 100 foot journey, clarity about the purpose, the procedure, or if the path even exists doesn't come until you've gone 99 feet. It's supposed to be like this, supposed to be difficult and based on faith.