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  #41  
Old 27-02-2020, 05:29 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apakhana Akshobhya
Lol, but turtles do live an awfully long time though so maybe it's all the same for them?

But I know the feeling. Also the human ego wants things immediately too so somewhere outside that is where actual progress gets made. Check out the tradition though, Drukama, it definitely facilitates a faster pace.

Hello Apakhaha, good point there about the turtles.
You know, I have never felt too much impatience about the vast majority of things in life. Nor regarding other people, generally speaking.

My feeling that time is running out is more having to do with the state of humanity and the state of the damage we've caused from the top on down. Damage to one another, and especially the weaker and more vulnerable. And damage to Gaia, who is also showing serious signs of stress and breakdown.

I am pretty sure most of what I was feeling strongly of late directly accrues to humanity's grab-bag of almost unspeakable atrocities in those broad areas and where they've led us to date.

Honza raised the very real question (as I understood it) of what about our core spiritual iniquities -- and are we so in their thrall that we are beyond the capacity to save ourselves? And if so, is God remorseful? I think all humanity with any smidge of humility and wisdom is extremely remorseful regarding what humanity has done to one another (rape, murder, apathy, cruelty, genocides of every flavor) and what we've done to Gaia.

It's a fine line between feeling great compassion for humanity...as many of us also do in our small human way ;) ...and feeling remorse for having created a universe that could ever give rise to such a deeply flawed creature such as humankind, despite our great potential.

Yes...humanity are remorseful, if we're decent and not psychopathic or narcissistic. Particularly for what we've done, and for failing to own our flawed nature and take proper ownership for our words & deeds.

If this is the case and as below, so above (as well as the better-known reverse), then God or First Cause too apprehends and affirms this remorse. Put another way, why wouldn't FC be remorseful regarding us, despite the boundless love and compassion? These things can certainly exist all together. If in us why not elsewhere, as well?

Remorse is an appropriate response (by God or FC) to the state of humanity at present. Until and unless WE rise to it, own our flawed spiritual iniquity, and grapple with it nobly and honourably. Rather than stoking its fires callously and egregiously.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #42  
Old 28-02-2020, 04:19 PM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
This whole idea of being God and being perfect is very interesting and self empowering. But what about the idea of being God and NOT being perfect? What about the idea that God sins or is imperfect?

Do you think God would ever repent for His sins? Or feel remorse that He sins? Did Jesus ever show any remorse for His imperfections? Or any other God for that matter?

I do not think that I know of any God who repents or shows any remorse. It is a type of hypocrisy in a way. God ought to be aware of His imperfections.

I am aware that I AM God. Yet I also feel remorse and I do repent. God/Reality really ought to take a deep look at itself and consider if it actually IS perfect or if there is any room for improvement.
God is perfect, but that perfection in Being, is in the process of becoming in the physical, through Life.

In that sense God, AS THAT process (including us) necessarily but conditionally in ignorance of true Self, is involved in unavoidable error, pain, suffering, misguidance, "sin", etc. that is evolving constantly toward greater perfection and awareness as ignorance is transformed.

Therefore from a human pov, we could easily project that God is "remorseful" for having put this entire unfathomable process into motion as the Creation, with all its negative consequences of the Ignorance (e.g., "sin"), but these are also by Nature (and by God's Will and Necessity) - transcend-able conditions.

It may be that what we see as remorse is our own feeling of unworthiness, incompleteness, guilt over unavoidable failure - which is really the falsehood that results in God's increasing Compassion and Forgiveness toward the incessant evolution of consiousness - not as remorse as in regret, etc., but as continued support and opportunity to experience the Unconditional Identity that we essentially are, but are working and evolving into. God wants the ongoing and increasing perfection of the physical, the Divinization of it. Spirituality is our conscious and deliberate participation in that process, practice and goal.

The notion that an Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Infinite, Eternal, All-Conscious Being "made a mistake" for which there is regret and consternation is a patent absurdity.


~ J
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  #43  
Old 28-02-2020, 05:50 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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I think you nailed it Jyotir. I think a CREATION is going on too. God separated into us and now is in the process of fulfilling Himself.
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  #44  
Old 28-02-2020, 07:03 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
The notion that an Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Infinite, Eternal, All-Conscious Being "made a mistake" for which there is regret and consternation is a patent absurdity.

Absolutely.

Peace
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  #45  
Old 29-02-2020, 07:10 PM
Honza Honza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
The notion that an Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Infinite, Eternal, All-Conscious Being "made a mistake" for which there is regret and consternation is a patent absurdity.

I am not so sure. Earth is imperfect and it is directly connected to God. Earth is like the 'effect' of God's 'cause'...

Earth and humanity is like God's baby. Which He treats with neglect.

I have strong feelings that 'perfection' does not really exist.
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  #46  
Old 02-03-2020, 08:03 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
God is perfect, but that perfection in Being, is in the process of becoming in the physical, through Life.

In that sense God, AS THAT process (including us) necessarily but conditionally in ignorance of true Self, is involved in unavoidable error, pain, suffering, misguidance, "sin", etc. that is evolving constantly toward greater perfection and awareness as ignorance is transformed.

Therefore from a human pov, we could easily project that God is "remorseful" for having put this entire unfathomable process into motion as the Creation, with all its negative consequences of the Ignorance (e.g., "sin"), but these are also by Nature (and by God's Will and Necessity) - transcend-able conditions.

It may be that what we see as remorse is our own feeling of unworthiness, incompleteness, guilt over unavoidable failure - which is really the falsehood that results in God's increasing Compassion and Forgiveness toward the incessant evolution of consiousness - not as remorse as in regret, etc., but as continued support and opportunity to experience the Unconditional Identity that we essentially are, but are working and evolving into. God wants the ongoing and increasing perfection of the physical, the Divinization of it. Spirituality is our conscious and deliberate participation in that process, practice and goal.

The notion that an Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Infinite, Eternal, All-Conscious Being "made a mistake" for which there is regret and consternation is a patent absurdity.


~ J

Jyotir, hello there!

I have tried to view this from many different perspectives, but I feel much more grounded in my own understanding of interbeing and relationship. There is distinction, yes...but not separation.

Interbeing is relational and growth is affective of all parties, even if variously. Along with everything else What Is may be (and of which we know very little), It is, to use a simple concept, also fractal. Hence our existence and our self-aware sentience on whatever small scale we experience it.

So...if we feel remorse for the state of our individual and collective humanity, it doesn't mean we are a mistake in our uniqueness nor in our totality. Nor does it mean that everything we do or say is a mistake.
It only means that with our remorse, we acknowledge some misalignment and iniquity...and perhaps even extensive misalignment and iniquity.

I believe (experientially) that interbeing means that One is with us and encompasses us, and that we take part in One even as (variously) One takes part in us.
As we feel and grow and experience our existence, in some manner (whether abstract or concrete and direct) so does One experience all these things.

Exactly how this occurs is beyond us (aside from direct apprehension or illumination), and so ultimately it matters not to us except that we are (with) One and One is (with) us.
And so, as I see it, as we feel remorse, so (variously) does One. And...as One feels remorse, so do we, in whatever manner we are able to resonate and to do so.

This does not mean One regrets creation or that humanity is or should be deemed a mistake.
It simply means there is remorse for what we have done to one another and to creation...and it's not the first time, according to many scriptures and wisdom traditions ;)

Perhaps we are simply too flawed to find our better natures without a rigid social system that limits our choices. Perhaps it would be ideal if our spiritual maturity more closely matched our physical bodies, so that we could not do harm nor take most adult responsibilities without consciously living from centre in our treatment of others & of Gaia, and without disciplining our iniquities. One and the same, in many ways.
Perhaps in time, our spiritual and emotional maturity would accrue and progress more in line with our physical maturity, so that humanity could evolve more sustainably.

However, humanity on Gaia in this instance of spacetime existence may be running out of time.
Due quite specifically to the runaway, egregious, and conscious abuse of humanity and Gaia over the last ~40 years environmentally and economically (communally), and over the last ~60 years socially, morally, and ethically (interpersonally).

Remorse is not ridiculous, I would argue...
Rather, remorse is an honourable and critical part of the contrition, repentance, and reconciliation process. We are of God, of One...and we do need to reconcile and make amends. With one another, with Gaia, and with God. The wellspring of remorse and the process of reconciliation may be our last honest hope. This transformative process is as powerful an expression of authentic love than almost anything else we can experience. It is transformation that is yoked to manifestation.

Humanity's last chance arguably hinges precisely on our capacity for remorse and repentance, from consciously owning our behaviour and turning from much of what we do now and why.
Humanity's last chance comes down to owning so much of what we do and have done over this ~ last half century is misaligned AND always has been.
Comes down to owning that we so often simply papered it over our naked iniquity in fancy terms, theorems, paradigms, and/or "innate" (LOL) motives that excused and even condoned our misalignment.

Only with ownership and living in the truth of where we are in misalignment is any authentic change and clear, sustained movement toward right-alignment possible.
Heartfelt remorse is a natural pre-cursor to taking ownership...as ego will flail and rail non-stop to prevent ownership of misalignment.
Engaging the heart-led consciousness -- centred in One -- is arguably our only hope to overcoming ego and all the modern constructs, paradigms, and trappings of our misalignment.

In my limited understanding, there is a direct connection at centre and it is mutually causal, so that God's remorse is our remorse, and our remorse is God's remorse. In whatever simple and direct way we can apprehend and experience this resonant interbeing. And we need it now, all round, and in all directions -- more than ever before, resonant, expanded, and amplified beyond all imagining. At the heart centre, and from the heart centre. No separation.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke

Last edited by 7luminaries : 02-03-2020 at 08:53 PM.
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  #47  
Old 02-03-2020, 08:22 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza
I am not so sure. Earth is imperfect and it is directly connected to God. Earth is like the 'effect' of God's 'cause'...

Earth and humanity is like God's baby. Which He treats with neglect.

I have strong feelings that 'perfection' does not really exist.
Honza, I agree with your observation.

Imperfection and boundless love -- both -- allow for growth, manifestation, free will, and the ongoing "becoming" of all that is. Imperfection and becoming is our being and God or One partakes of that and shares in our being -- regardless of any intrinsic perfection (none of which we can fully comprehend anyway). All of these features (our existence, the relational nature of One and many, of What Is and all that is) are good and exist "by design".

But certainly this imperfection by design would not preclude honest remorse, IMO, even simply in the interbeing and totality of being One with our experience.

Peace & blessings
7L
__________________
Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #48  
Old 10-03-2020, 04:23 PM
Apakhana Akshobhya Apakhana Akshobhya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Hello Apakhaha, good point there about the turtles.
You know, I have never felt too much impatience about the vast majority of things in life. Nor regarding other people, generally speaking.

My feeling that time is running out is more having to do with the state of humanity and the state of the damage we've caused from the top on down. Damage to one another, and especially the weaker and more vulnerable. And damage to Gaia, who is also showing serious signs of stress and breakdown.

I am pretty sure most of what I was feeling strongly of late directly accrues to humanity's grab-bag of almost unspeakable atrocities in those broad areas and where they've led us to date.

Honza raised the very real question (as I understood it) of what about our core spiritual iniquities -- and are we so in their thrall that we are beyond the capacity to save ourselves? And if so, is God remorseful? I think all humanity with any smidge of humility and wisdom is extremely remorseful regarding what humanity has done to one another (rape, murder, apathy, cruelty, genocides of every flavor) and what we've done to Gaia.

It's a fine line between feeling great compassion for humanity...as many of us also do in our small human way ;) ...and feeling remorse for having created a universe that could ever give rise to such a deeply flawed creature such as humankind, despite our great potential.

Yes...humanity are remorseful, if we're decent and not psychopathic or narcissistic. Particularly for what we've done, and for failing to own our flawed nature and take proper ownership for our words & deeds.

If this is the case and as below, so above (as well as the better-known reverse), then God or First Cause too apprehends and affirms this remorse. Put another way, why wouldn't FC be remorseful regarding us, despite the boundless love and compassion? These things can certainly exist all together. If in us why not elsewhere, as well?

Remorse is an appropriate response (by God or FC) to the state of humanity at present. Until and unless WE rise to it, own our flawed spiritual iniquity, and grapple with it nobly and honourably. Rather than stoking its fires callously and egregiously.

Peace & blessings
7L

That's good you never felt too much impatience, I think somewhere there is a balance between impatience and then being too complacent also sometimes in us.

I think, to parallel what you're describing with my own experiences, you're talking about time running out and damage being done. This realm itself is pretty much based on exclusivity and not inclusiveness. I was able to learn allot about this after finding my teacher but allot of peopel feel it too like you're describing but peopel just can't place their finger on what it is.

Everything in the world is self-biased. We never hold a compassionate and inclusive aspect to our desires usually they are exclusive to our own self and the event sin this world reflect that. I can cite plenty of exmaples but you all know as well as I do what they are so I won't.

From my experiences with the Ohr or "light" (I'm using a Hebrew reference I don't know what it's called elsewhere) really there's nothing that isn't this. Everything is source, everything is creator. It can't always reach us because we use it to empower our selfish wants instead of using it with genuine compassion to help anyone else.
What you say about remorse I'd say is right but it has to be authentic remorse/repentance. We have to actually mean it.

The point I can't make (lol) is that remorse can be the mechanism God reaches through our ego divider to reach us with.
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