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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #41  
Old 21-09-2019, 09:44 AM
hazada guess
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Starman............Good advice.
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  #42  
Old 21-09-2019, 01:44 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
What we see in this world, whether we call it "good" or "evil" comes from within us. We are responsible for our outward behavior, and I feel life is about lessons, and I don't know what the lessons are for others, barely are aware of my own lessons. The lessons may look harsh on the surface but the impetus for those lessons came from within. Nonetheless, I do accept that we are often tested. You are talking about the victims of others failed tests.
I very much relate to the idea of 'failure' to 'pass' 'tests', Starman - the 'test' being whether or not one accords 'selfish' gratification a greater Love and Joy priority, in terms of subjective value, than the wellfare of others. I 'see' hate for instance as just being disappointed Love, and haters being people who Love and enJoy 'hating' more than they care about others.

I remember being very (to say the least!) angry and hateful (i.e. 'evil' ) and so 'indulging' in feelings and reveling in anger and hate based fantasies towards my ex-wife (for a whole number of justifiable 'reasons') for instance, until I consciously chose to stop doing so and started wishing and treating her 'well' because I 'saw' (i.e. understood, believed, thought and felt) my/our child would be better off if her mother was in the best possible 'health'. In due course, of course , because that led to my becoming a more wholistically loving and joyful person such a decision redounded to my benefit as well.

From my treatise which presents my philosophy pertaining what incarnating gives us the opportunity to 'learn' (and so choose') which the above 'episode' was a 'lesson' in:
What this means is that, analogous to the way it takes many years of ‘schooling’ wherein initially ignorant and unskilled novices are tasked with learning and given the opportunity to master increasingly complex ‘lessons’ and thereby, upon ‘passing’ greater adeptitude-demanding ‘tests’, progress through a series of ‘grade’ levels to the point where they finally ‘graduate’ from vocational training programs and schools of knowledge, it takes numerous physical lifetimes for ‘young’ souls to become masterfully adept at deploying their ‘inner’ Love and Joy ‘program’ in relation to Life and others in it in the context of the infinite psychospiritual possibility containing ‘stream’ of sometimes mind-n-spirit sparking opportunities and sometimes mind-n-spirit daunting challenges that are encountered in the course of living in a matrixially multi-layered, complexly interwoven physiosocial system such as ours.

The alternative in relation to any particular challenge and/or opportunity, of course, being to ‘fail’ to do so, though, as you probably know if you are experienced enough, such ‘failure’ does not in and of itself preclude anyone from progressing in the above regard because one may often learn even more by reviewing and learning ‘lessons’ from one’s ‘failures’ than one’s ‘successes’. Indeed, the possibility of ‘failure’, and so ‘failures’ themselves, are crucial components of a soul’s developmental process. A string of ‘successes’ alone will not result in one’s developing the degree of mental acuity and emotional resilience required to recognize, wisely navigate, and functionally emancipate oneself from being subject to the pulls and pushes of immediate selfish-gratification affording ‘temptations’ which, besides often leading one in a ‘wrong’ (short-term-gain-long-term-cost) direction, divert precious attention and energy away from the goal of maximally actualizing one’s Love and Joy potential in relation to and with other aspects of Life’s Presence and Flow Process. As in the case of a child’s learning to stand up, walk, run, etc., experiences of ‘failure’ resulting from one’s being short-sighted, careless, uncoordinated, etc. and (so) losing one’s balance, tripping and falling, bumping into walls, etc. in relation to others actually pave the way for ‘success’ in this regard.

The short version of ‘the full story’ is that, with the benefit of having both (‘unsuccessful’ and ‘successful’) kinds of experiences, souls may incrementally become aware of the ins and outs of the multivarious kinds of liabilities that attend ‘petty’ selfishness and (so) in due course choose as well as ultimately manage to transcend any and all selfish-‘i’dentity based inclinations, such that they eventually become fully functionally capable of and completely devoted to optimizing and augmenting The Entity of Life’s Love and Joy Flow (beyond the scope of their ‘own’ selfish one) and from then on live in a state of ‘at oneness’ (i.e. in conjunction) with said ever‑ongoing process forever (i.e. ‘eternally’) thereafter. The alternative possibility in this ‘ultimate’ regard, of course, being that souls may completely capital ‘F’(!) Fail to do and be so.
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Last edited by davidsun : 21-09-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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  #43  
Old 21-09-2019, 09:16 PM
Starman Starman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
The short version of ‘the full story’ is that, with the benefit of having both (‘unsuccessful’ and ‘successful’) kinds of experiences, souls may incrementally become aware of the ins and outs of the multivarious kinds of liabilities that attend ‘petty’ selfishness and (so) in due course choose as well as ultimately manage to transcend any and all selfish-‘i’dentity based inclinations, such that they eventually become fully functionally capable of and completely devoted to optimizing and augmenting The Entity of Life’s Love and Joy Flow (beyond the scope of their ‘own’ selfish one) and from then on live in a state of ‘at oneness’ (i.e. in conjunction) with said ever‑ongoing process forever (i.e. ‘eternally’) thereafter. The alternative possibility in this ‘ultimate’ regard, of course, being that souls may completely capital ‘F’(!) Fail to do and be so.[/size][/indent]

This takes insightful awareness, like what you had with the anger towards your ex-wife. Often people get stuck,
polarized, we see a lot of that today, and they are not willing to compromise, negotiate, or find a more amiable position.

Anger and hate while taxing, is easier for some than compromise, or trying to see things from the other persons'
perspective. Anger and hate can become habitual and infectious to others, just like joy and love can become habitual
and infectious to others.

Changing one's attitude often takes a lot of work, depending on how stuck a person might be. Attitude often directs a
person's life and allows them to see what they see, or don't see. It is said that our attitude determines our altitude.
What we give our attention to, for brtter or worst, grows.
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  #44  
Old 22-09-2019, 02:46 AM
janielee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
In my opinion the best thing we can do for this world is bring joy and love into it. For me, quieting my mind helps in doing that. Happiness is and inside job. I also try not to compare my life with the life of others, although volunteer work with those in abject need has often helped me to appreciate my situation. We do not have to do much, little things add up, like just smiling at someone or offering them good tidings.

I was in and office building walking down the hallway when I saw a small child alone by himself, on his toes trying to get a drink from a public water fountain. I went over and asked him if he needed help getting a drink, he shook his head yes, and I lifted him in my arms and pressed the button so he could get a drink. He gulped down the water, and then I placed him back on his feet on the floor.

Noticing that a woman with a child in her arms was standing a few feet away smiling and looking at us. Turns out the woman was his mother, and the child said "thank you" to me in a sweet child-like voice and ran over to her. I went on my way, but that simple act made my day, and I remember it with joy even to this day. Each person has to find what works for them, and sometimes the search seems long.

Find out what you have a passion for and try to go with that. Depression is the most widespread mental disturbance in the world. Most people have acute depression, some have episodic depression, while others have chronic depression. Not watching a lot of T.V. helps me stay away from depression. Trying to inspire others, and spreading love and laughter, without expectations, I think is the best medicine.

Thanks Starman, my work depresses me a little, spending most of my time and energy on that. I wish I could do other things but have people to feed. I agree that it’s the moments when we are love that is our most nourishing and joyful times.

Jl
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  #45  
Old 22-09-2019, 07:26 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Whatever one may believe about evil it was unknown until mankind appeared upon the scene. Good and evil (as we understand them to be ) have stepped outside nature. A dinosaur killing a tiger for lunch was quite normal, had the same dinosaur killed and eaten my cousin Harry it would be evil.
We now all live in a world of goodies and baddies, cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, and so on. We all know that certain religions, countries, politics and beliefs are inferior to ours and that only we see the world in a true light.
We are also quite prepared to bomb, desecrate, destroy, ruin, eliminate and remove all we consider to be some kind of evil.

With good intentions of course.

Sometimes even in God's name.
GREAT POINTS!
I suspect you do not buy into the evil scenario, I do not.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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  #46  
Old 22-09-2019, 07:32 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Originally Posted by lemex
Sometimes but not usually imo. Evil usually is allowed associated with fear, and then justified. I always wait for the reason. Saying "no" is considered evil a lot of times and so people get threaten with loss of safety. Something I've seen relative to good. Good then is also relative. I've also noted it is always associated in a memory state anger and hate and negativity that must be given up.

We may think evil does not have to exist, but we do not know how to exclude it.
GOOD POINT
Evil might exist, but not in the way most people use the word.
I suspect evil is an individualized thought form created by ones who believe in it and constantly feed it.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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  #47  
Old 23-09-2019, 12:46 PM
ketzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
Huh? How could anyone remain ignorant of what they know? If I know enough about some construct to determine its truth value as being harmful, evil, how can I then ‘unknow’ it? I might choose to not utilize it, but to remain ignorant of what I know?

Please explain how this is possible.



uhhh… Truth?

How can "a soul" go astray when the soul is the gnostic part of the individuated being? And this is the source/awareness of truth in the being. It's usually the mind, vital, or physical aspects that 'go astray', not the soul.

Again, if any construct or teaching is known and identified as false, misleading, harmful, evil, what then is the necessary prohibition in simply not actualizing said teaching? Do we not have free-will in that regard?

I just don’t see how what you are saying is relevant or primary. Evil is always possible or available, but why deliberately go there? If one is ignorant or naïve and has not established this and follows or is misled accordingly, by definition that isn’t evil. There has to be a knowing deliberate complicity (including any active pretense of denial) for it to be evil.

The same confidence is involved either way, but here we are discussing the spiritual dimension... In that context, we just expose our mind to what the search for truth reveals and where it leads to by that internal necessity. That is the spiritual way.

This is what true confidence is: when someone is sincerely searching for truth, the Truth itself begins to guide and direct that very search. It’s important to understand that Truth is not the same as ‘information’. It is a mode of continuously active sincere intuitive search and discernment - subjective knowing by identification - not the mere absorption, memorization and rational comparison of objective information.

How about ignorance?
And ignorant cognition. This is a fundamental problem. Ignorant modes of cognition yield ignorant results. This is why spiritual people meditate, because it supersedes the mental/intellectual modes that are inherently ignorant as a cognitive means. Meditation practice conditions to normalcy a more gnostic intuitive receptive modality that isn't otherwise predominantly available in the conscious being.

But people also spend a lot of time becoming enamored of their own cleverness for its own sake too. That is also a type of ignorance. It’s not necessarily evil, but it is ultimately a diversion. Why waste precious time?


~ J
One must differentiate between belief and knowledge. Too much confidence can get in the way, cause us to keep our nose too high in the air and not see that the trail we are following has branched in a direction that may lead off a cliff.

Perhaps we need the wisdom of Rumi here.... the other Rumi.

"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones" Donald Rumsfeld

Life is a journey in which the soul goes for a ride with the mind and ego in the drivers side. Perhaps one can boot them out and take over the wheel, but then the journey will be necessarily different. Not wrong, but not necessarily better, just different. GPS vs an old fashioned road trip. Astray can be one of the best places to go, but of course there are those dangerous neighborhoods to think about getting lost in as well.
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  #48  
Old 23-09-2019, 01:38 PM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones" Donald Rumsfeld
Not sure what is really being said, but it does seem interesting. What I got out of it was that some things can be predicted.
For example, when there is another mass shooting, I try to find answers as to why the person did what they did. What were some of the triggers, etc. that caused the person to do what they did.
Can some of these disasters be predicted? I would say "Yes" if people get more familiar with the perpetrator. Some claim the person is evil but the more I look at the background of the person, the person appears to be a result of their environment, childhood, lack of taking their meds or being prescribed the wrong meds.
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        Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
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  #49  
Old 28-09-2019, 01:36 PM
Found Goat Found Goat is offline
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There was a time when the problem of evil would be raised, as to why God permits it to exist if He is loving and omnipotent. Atheists often like to get bogged down in this spurious argument, in their attempt to make God out to seem nonexistent, perhaps not realizing that they are entering into a somewhat intricate, theological debate which they are simply not adequately versed in enough to offer sound and persuasive reasoning. At least these atheists are lucid enough in their thinking to acknowledge the reality of objective evil, something which is seemingly beyond the grasp of those who in theory claim to make no distinction between good and bad, right and wrong, yet are in practice far removed from psychopaths who, coincidentally, think in the same warped manner.

If evil is a negative sounding word that is only because life has its negative aspects alongside its positive ones. One may dislike the term but banishing the word from one’s active vocabulary does not nothing to remove its existence from consensus reality, no matter how sandy one’s hair may be.

If one has ever studied sociopathy or criminology, one cannot help but come to the conclusion that there is certainly something within certain human beings that compels them to commit heinous deeds, other than factors within the psychology of the deranged individual that might be traced back to arrant parenting.

A naturalist might chalk up such depraved activity to either insanity or some quasi-mysterious psychological remnant of our primal ancestors (the atavistic view), but never to diabolical forces.

It is the fashionable thing nowadays for some people to question the very existence of evil, primarily because we live in a world that generally believes and teaches a non-spiritual worldview and where worldly success is often attained at the expense of any virtues and values one might have had at the outset of his ambitious pursuit. A psychopath is one who lacks a strong concience, or any one at all, who feels little or no pity, compassion, or remorse. Psychologists who have studied this particular mentality have wondered whether the psychopath is, at least in part, a product of his evolutionary minded and dog-eat-dog social environment, where even in business and politics, although no violent crimes are committed, one nevertheless often finds the same sociopathic spirit in practice, in the form of ruthless business practices.

In other words, would wickedness exist at the lower rungs in a society if it were not for the existence of corruption or outright evil in high places? If the answer to that is no or not very likely, one might then rule out the psychological/biological perspective in favor of a sociological or even supernatural explanation.

Save for extreme examples, as in the case of outright bad seeds and nefarious dictators, I don’t think there is any one definitive answer that can satisfactorily account for the behavior of evildoers as a whole, whether that be the influence of the reptilian brain or Reptilian string-pullers. It might very well be a combination of causes.

In the Bible, the most malefic being of all that is said to exist is referred to as the Evil One, with power over the entire world. This holy tome teaches that man may be so inherently corrupt so as to be unqualified to live independent of divine direction, but it doesn’t help matters when, elsewhere it’s mentioned, the Earth is littered with machinators, quite possibly influencing global affairs and playing one side off the other.
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  #50  
Old 12-10-2019, 05:15 AM
Dodsmeister777 Dodsmeister777 is offline
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Evil is anything that is marked by sin or controlled by the devil and his demons. It is anything that doesn't align to who Jesus is and his will. That is why the world can be full of all kinds of evil, while also being full of all kinds of good. Both the devil and God are very active in the earth. But in the end evil will lose because Jesus is coming back to conquer all things as the one true king of the universe!!
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