Thwarting Unwanted Advances with Love and Kindness

[Imzadi]

I seem to have trouble with thwarting unwanted romantic advances. I think because I'm usually friendly and nice, people might misinterpret this as a reciprocation of their romantic fixation. I try to maintain friendliness and guide the direction into a platonic zone, but I feel very worn out sometimes.

There are times when I bluntly state that, "I'm not romantically available and I live a celibate monastic lifestyle and I hope you find what you are looking for," but they seem eager to wait it out or something as if someday I would come to my senses and be with them or something! I don't like to block or ignore people because I think that can be cruel.

I also try to direct their attention back to self love and for them not to seek my (or any other person's) validation, but to first find wholeness within their own hearts. My sister says to just block them and cut off ties, but I really don't want to hurt their feelings.

Maybe God is testing my patience and compassion, but I'm starting to think my sister might be right that perhaps cutting them off completely would be the right call. I mean it's probably just harmless infatuation and I do want to consider them my friends, but this is getting ridiculous.

How would you handle such situations with grace and compassion?

My favorite is the explanation of being friends first. Ask the next advance to think about the way close friendship develops. Point out that there isn't any expectation or even intent most of the time. Two people who are accepting of each other because neither wants or needs from the other. over time they usually realize "We've become Best friends without trying" I explain this and they drop wanting to fit me into their idea of love or they try to become friends with intentions of a romantic relationship forming and in time they let that go and end up being a close friend who fully accepts me the way I am. My personal rule is to be friends first. Most fail at the idea of platonic friendship.

I can say I've learned more about myself from entertaining the ones "I should have blocked" then the ones "I should have entertained".

[Imzadi]

Originally Posted by Badcopyinc

My favorite is the explanation of being friends first. Ask the next advance to think about the way close friendship develops. Point out that there isn't any expectation or even intent most of the time. Two people who are accepting of each other because neither wants or needs from the other. over time they usually realize "We've become Best friends without trying" I explain this and they drop wanting to fit me into their idea of love or they try to become friends with intentions of a romantic relationship forming and in time they let that go and end up being a close friend who fully accepts me the way I am. My personal rule is to be friends first. Most fail at the idea of platonic friendship.

I can say I've learned more about myself from entertaining the ones "I should have blocked" then the ones "I should have entertained".

Wow, thank you for your sagely input! I think I've been sort of doing that to a certain degree. I also find that some amorous people tend to have an idealized vision of what they want me to be and what role they want me to portray for them that I do not and cannot resonate with. I think you are right in that practicing patience and acceptance with the people that I may want to avoid might be beneficial for my spiritual growth and learning process. I can then cultivate compassion and empathy for their predicament which I think can be rather difficult. Imagine someone thinking erroneously that their happiness is held hostage by you and your affection. It must feel rather despairing that their object of desire cannot reciprocate their idea of romantic love. If only we can all learn to find wholeness and joy within ourselves and with the Universe!

Originally Posted by Imzadi

Imagine someone thinking erroneously that their happiness is held hostage by you and your affection. It must feel rather despairing that their object of desire cannot reciprocate their idea of romantic love. If only we can all learn to find wholeness and joy within ourselves and with the Universe!

When i cross paths with anyone like that i have them read this...

The capacity to be alone is the capacity to love. It may look paradoxical to you, but it is not. It is an existential truth. Only those people who are capable of being alone are capable of love, of sharing, of going into the deepest core of another person - without possessing the other, without becoming dependent on the other, without reducing the other to a thing, and without becoming addicted to the other. They allow the other absolute freedom, because they know that if the other leaves, they will be as happy as they are now. Their happiness cannot be taken by the other, because it is not given by the other.
~Osho

I once had a female friend read this quote and tell me immediately after reading it that she loved me. Of course i responded back the same. and then asked her why she said it and she told me she didn't know. I hinted that maybe she was in love with the freedom to be herself without judgement. since then we've been the best of platonic friends....

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Badcopyinc

My favorite is the explanation of being friends first. Ask the next advance to think about the way close friendship develops. Point out that there isn't any expectation or even intent most of the time. Two people who are accepting of each other because neither wants or needs from the other. over time they usually realize "We've become Best friends without trying" I explain this and they drop wanting to fit me into their idea of love or they try to become friends with intentions of a romantic relationship forming and in time they let that go and end up being a close friend who fully accepts me the way I am. My personal rule is to be friends first. Most fail at the idea of platonic friendship.

I can say I've learned more about myself from entertaining the ones "I should have blocked" then the ones "I should have entertained".

Badcopy & Imzadi...hello there!

I would say that most simply fail at a true friendship first & foremost between genders, full stop.
Of course you are absolutely right to draw your boundaries with love and kindness and also to seek friendship first and foremost.
Frankly as a woman, it would be quite dangerous to do so in any other way, and I learnt this very early on, not to arouse a man's anger any more than necessary. Some will easily become violent, others will stalk you -- you can't always say who -- and it could always be lethal to confront a man with harsh words, harsh looks or a harsh tone of voice.

On friendship...
If you are female seeking friendship and love simply as your primary way of relating to the world...then good luck with men, unfortunately.
Sadly, over college/uni age, particularly say over 30...almost 100% of men will not bother with becoming your close personal friend...unless perhaps they are family/related or too old to contemplate sex with you. At least 20 years diff on their side is required before most will get ahold of themselves, LOL...

In some cases perhaps it is more fear of having to give in any sense, even just in a friendship. But for most, it's primarily the lack of sure sex...which means a platonic friendship is impossible for most women with most men...because they require sex from the woman. If not now, there needs to be a good certainty of sex or they will drop you. You as a woman are not valued for your humanity...absolutely not. You're valued by most men first for your vagina and your sexual services, and also secondarily for bootlicking, subservience, and ego bolstering

Men run stuff and they call the shots and the vast majority largely cannot and will not be bothered to spend time in adulthood with a non-familial woman (non-relative) who doesn't actively or potentially want to have a sexual relationship with them. Unless the gents are extremely advanced spiritually and have their sex drive and ego needs fully managed. Like Sensei in the Karate Kid...that sort of thing Perhaps for specific activities in groups, etc., this may be ok but too often folks (including dirtbag marrieds) will hit on the women, rather than truly cultivating friendships for their own sake.

If however you are male, there are PLENTY of stable, emotionally mature women who will be happy to have your non-sexual genuine friendship if you are authentic and honourable. Particularly once they have already had their kids and are not motivated by a natural biological urge to partner and have kids (say over 35 or so, when most have had their kids). However, if a woman is NOT willing to get to know and love you as a person, IMO she too is a predator and needs to own her own stuff...so you're so right to seek friendship first and foremost.

As you can see, though...friendship with the opposite sex is highly dependent on gender at this time in humanity's development. If you're a man, you CAN find friendships with women who don't need to ever have sex with you and who truly value your friendship, though it may be somewhat easier when you are not very young. However most men simply don't care for this, as the vast majority have prioritised regular sexual servicing in a "(sexual) relationship" as superior to being loved for who they are (in any relationship, including beloved friendship), full stop. Yet a beloved friendship is a great treasure in life for anyone. The wise man who can give as well as take in friendship knows he is truly loved as he is in these friendships. Not for just taking, not for just giving, and not just for the caretaking or the financial aid or the ego boosting (etc).

If you're a woman, it's far, far harder at the moment to find these things from non-familial (unrelated) men...most simply aren't interested, though perhaps they would be ok with you just as a casual acquaintance. The thing is, as a woman even if you give sex to a man, you're not likely to get a true and unconditional love in return. One which actively seeks your highest good. Yet authentic love and beloved friendship are the ONLY things women universally want from anyone, including any man, once she's had children. (Unless you are a close and resonant soul friend and then maybe sex is also desired).

So this begs the question for me, which is why is it any woman has sex with any man after she's had her kids?...unless they share a mutual and freely given authentic love for one another? Why don't we ladies all get dressed and find the love within, once we've had our kids and the rush of madness is passing, LOL? Why do any one of us tolerate less than freely given, mutual authentic love...even if it means living lean and not dear? I.e. living thriftily and not expensively? Where is our dignity? Are we that easily manipulated emotionally by predatory gents who want sex and touch, even well into adulthood (LOL)? Can't we own our own happiness, nurture ourselves, and not put that burden on others? And request others do the same on their end?

I know it's hard for many women because we are not well rewarded as a whole in the marketplace and we are physically quite vulnerable. But perhaps if we women turned off the spigot of endless, cheap, trivial, mindless, heartless sex (as seen from the gent's point of view), perhaps gents would actually have to spend a mo to get to know us...to know and love us as beloved friends first. And that should ultimately be a step in the right direction. Even though many would be angry initially at having to honour our humanity in the ways in which WE require and need. And it could certainly be dangerous...and rape and brutality could certainly be used wholesale as an overt weapon (like in warfare) if the anger was externalised even further. Even so...regaining or gaining our humanity may well require it.

Because how much nicer wouldn't the world be with more love and connection, eh? And who would still give a fig if there was less mindless, heartless sex when there was so much more love in their lives? And when the sex you did have actually meant something, on every level and not just in the near-term.
What do you think, as gents?

LOL..."Yes, questions...."
Hahahaha.....

Peace & blessings
7L

7luminaries..

I resonate with much of what you wrote. I don't feel its more difficult for one gender to enter a genuine relationship than another. Quite frequently I'm approached like I'm a piece of meat or They perceive me like I'm after meat. Expectation and assumption are embraced by all. We are all taught by the world (friends, family and media) what relationships "really" are and how to build them. but few teach us that we can only understand others as deeply as we understand ourselves.

But i wouldn't be able to understand any of this or myself even a little if it wasn't for the way society is currently. By chasing happiness through others i have found happiness in myself.

The worst and last relationship i was in years ago led me to the search for true love. I stood on my roof yelling at Orion 4 years ago daring him to show me true love. Shortly after that i found myself.

[7luminaries]

Hello there Badcopy! I agree the culture of exploitation, utilitarianism, and predatory sexual behaviours is toxic and harms all.

Are you dealing with women still in the family stage? Wanting kids or very young kids at home? They typically want a partner for kids/support/financial aid. It is the reality that women bear kids and most need help financially and logistically as (I am a single mum but) it's not a one-person job, LOL...This is the deal if we want the next generation of humanity, hahaha, It's true though that sadly many today use sex in a predatory way, to lure and manipulate men because too many men will come running with offers of cheap sex, freely given. So long gone are the days when any gent could assume a woman was "into him" because she gave him sex (LOL).

If you are over 40 say...you should be able to avoid women like this because they seem needy and immature, just as with all the men who demand or expect sex after a handful of dates at this age, LOL...As you imply, above a certain age if you haven't grown up, it's quite evident.

For myself, I feel strongly that if I want a partner relationship I can come by one pretty easily. Experience has shown me that. But typically I need to subsume most of who I am and I need to be heavily compliant and flex to them. It largely doesn't work the other way round. And that's not satisfying really, not in the least. It's so unsatisfying that you couldn't pay me money to engage in the normative "typical" relationship. These are not true partnerships though they all proclaim that they are.

If I want a friendship with women, no problem. A close personal friendship is possible with many. With men (straight men)...very difficult. Sex is always the obstacle. And sexual assault is a worry nearly everywhere and I have to always mind my whereabouts. It's the same for most women I know. It doesn't help I look much younger than my age and too many gents still think they can take advantage. Or that my mind is youthful mush

But friendship with men beyond my 20s or so has always been conditional...particularly over 35 or 40, a majority of men get desperate regarding sex. Most men demand it as a condition for "getting to know you". Men have figured out women crave love and intimacy in ALL their relationships, and too many require a "toll" of sex because they know their friendship is precious and so they demand something from a woman in order to even consider sharing it. Not like getting their toll paid means they will actually share in any meaningful way...hahaha...that's quite another story, eh? Sadly, most men above a certain age don't want any sort of close personal friendship with women, and particularly those who are not sexually available and willing. A more distant or casual acquaintanceship may be ok, of course.

Just saying...if you have not walked a mile in a woman's shoes in this modern culture...I would challenge you to find too many long-term male-female friendships over 20s...where no sex is expected or "hoped for" by the man even well into and beyond his 30s or 40s etc. They may exist but they are the exception, unfortunately.

If you're a gent who is looking for female friendships that are close and personal, you can find it pretty easily IF you look in legitimate circles (volunteer, church/temple, discussion or study groups, civic or community groups, etc). Though perhaps what I'm saying is that both men and women may find that being close personal friends (platonic/non-sexual) with men is the more difficult endeavour.

I'd of course like to see a wholesale sea change in humanity on this account. And I think it is wonderful and heartwarming to hear you too are seeking friendship first and foremost...and simply for its own sake

Peace & blessings
7L

[SaturninePluto]

I am trying to be celibate.

100 percent- free of anything.

I find the keeping people disinterested in me part much easier.

For this I use the honesty policy technique coupled with the "I literally have a few more tricks up my sleeve" technique.

1. Honesty Policy Technique- I flat out tell those whom I find out to have crushes on me the following "I am not interested in a human on human relationship right now. I have a lot of work on myself to do, that now needs to be done, and therefore I am not interested in anybody- not even if it wasn't you". "No it isn't you. I am literally disinterested in all of humanity at this time", "I'm not even joking". "What don't you understand"? "I am not interested in a relationship, with anyone right now".

2. I literally have a few more tricks up my sleeve technique # 1- I've worn my pajama clothes- washed when needed- for the most of my days- for two years straight. To the store! Down the street! To the park then! To my doctor's appointments!!!! To any psychiatry appointments!!! To the store again! Over to my brothers, my aunts, a friends! Anywhere- I don't care what people think.

3. If Honest Policy and I have a few more tricks up my sleeve technique # 1 doesn't work, then there's good old trusty I have a few more tricks up my sleeve technique # 2- I'll be myself. I am female, and I will swear like a sailor, talk like a guy, make jokes like a guy, whip out my dark sense of sick and twisted humor, be annoying as possible, I will spit on the ground- especially if I am sick anyway, which is often- I will pretty much be a 96 pound tiny middle aged woman whom acts like a 28 year old grown man. I also am not a very all round fun loving nice guy soooooo.

After all that if someone still likes me a lot I can determine one of two things. They either are a creepy old dude who still has not stopped following me and staring at me while I walk down the street- this is....getting ridiculous! Or they are a very good friend whom put up with me, stood by my side despite my obvious quirks, who has taken the time to have gotten to know me. And if after all that they are still waiting for sex? Tough.

My issue right now just so happens to be keeping my own hands off me when I feel things like desire. Which can be fixed easily enough when I get my personal finances worked out....in that I have some.

All I need is a good taser. Throw that baby on the highest voltage and when I get a human urge------ Zap!

As far as the whole blocking I have witnessed an instance where it really did end up hurting the person's feelings. That person was my brother, this was an ex girlfriend whom told him she would always be there for him to talk to and when he needed her most she blocked him via social messenger. His best friend had just killed himself and he wanted to talk with her about things...

He has not and will not forgive her.

Really what it all boils down to is great you want to remain celibate- I understand- I do as well.

That is well and fine. The question however remains- do you really want to miss out on the learning experience and joy of making new friends where possible? If some of these individuals get wise and do realize you are not interested, but perhaps they think- "Hey. He really has been a pretty good friend though".

There is a difference between celibacy- what you have going on- and simply giving up and keeping every human being away- what I've got going on.

See?

At any rate.

Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I feel strongly that if I want a partner relationship I can come by one pretty easily. Experience has shown me that. But typically I need to subsume most of who I am and I need to be heavily compliant and flex to them. It largely doesn't work the other way round. And that's not satisfying really, not in the least. It's so unsatisfying that you couldn't pay me money to engage in the normative "typical" relationship. These are not true partnerships though they all proclaim that they are.

This is exactly why i haven't been in a relationship in years. Almost as if you were in my head, lol.

I cant argue much of the woman vs man thing. I agree to much of the struggle for women even attempting to befriend the opposite sex. 90% of the men they interact with in person or on social media want sex. so its easy to assume everyone does. and sadly the men who want genuine relationships usually dont speak up and go unnoticed. Mostly the type of women (25-35) I cross paths with want sex or want to use sex to get what they want. and again i don't blame them. they were taught to do this and be like this. much like the men. But i combat this by being celibate even by No Fap. when i remove any urges from myself i gain better control of my actions and also don't feed into sexual manipulation. It also weeds out the one's after sex much faster

But i can say that I'm 34 have three kids and have at least 5 genuine relationships with females who no longer dare to look at me for their own happiness let alone sexual fulfillment.

[Imzadi]

Thank you so much 7L and SaturninePluto for your insightful and sometimes comical input! It totally made me laugh. lol

Yes I think in a hetero-normative situation with the typical social and psychological conditioning of genders, there can be quite the difference in experience between women and men in relations to unwanted advances! You both and Badcopyinc illustrates it very clearly and wisely.

Badcopyinc, thank you for that passage with Osho as it is simple yet deeply meaningful that we all can relate to and be reminded of. =D

As for myself, I think I am beginning to develop a greater sense of understanding and compassion that is also tempered with caution and proper boundaries. I can only be honest and kind, but if they become increasingly and relentlessly stalkerish, then perhaps the safest scenario would be to disconnect. :)