ambiguous terms vegan/vegetarian

[Northern Seeker]

Baile,

Points taken - and apologies if I've veered off-topic into the Twilight Zone talking about the term "vegan" in a thread titled "ambiguous terms vegan/vegetarian" in a forum titled "Vegetarian & Vegan" ;)

Mayhaps we aren't really differing too much here:

Should there be a list of foods? Check!

Should people with specific diets / beliefs know which of the list they can eat and which they can't? Check!

Can there be agreement as to which foods are healthy and which aren't? Not in a million, trillion years. Not even after a thousand suns have heat-died and warring factions of Singularity-Bots have long concluded their scrabble over kingdoms of stardust.

Can anyone agree which foods came from sentient persons and thus should be avoided by people that don't eat people? See previous answer.

[Gem]

I think nutrition is the foundation of health and it is best to understand the body's optimum nutrient requirements and what foods contain those nutrients. From there one can ensure that they ingest adequate protein, fats and essential vitamins and minerals. Vegans run a high risk of inadequate nutrition such as protein and essential micro-nutrients, so it is especially important for vegans to have proper knowledge in nutrition. Other than that, people are by and large ignorant abut nutrition, which makes them susceptible to all sorts of marketing ploys, including spiritual nutrition nonsense. It is amazing that all people are not taught about proper nutrition as we should be leaving school practically as experts in it.

[blindpilot824]

Originally Posted by Baile

Okay I hear you. Now, you strive for precision in your communication, so let me respond with this: I thought (and I may be wrong) that this thread and discussion had to do with foods and diet routines that are healthy. Fish isn't cockamamie, most people and even spiritual experts consider it healthy and necessary. I don't eat it, but I understand why others would.

You appear interested in a vegan only discussion. So how is that not "labeling" as well? I was saying all labels can be dropped, and that a general list of healthy foods can be put together. Then if you're vegan, just don't follow the list's fish suggestion for example.

naturewalker's huge list is legit. of course.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Northern Seeker

Points taken - and apologies if I've veered off-topic into the Twilight Zone talking about the term "vegan" in a thread titled "ambiguous terms vegan/vegetarian" in a forum titled "Vegetarian & Vegan" ;)

LOL. You know, I missed that. In my screen displaying the list of forums, this thread topic reads as "ambiguous terms..." and that's it. I honestly didn't see the vegan/vegetarian part. Yes, discuss what a vegan/vegetarian is if needs must! I'm going to go ponder what it is that's ambiguous about either, as well as how confusing all this is to me.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by blindpilot824

naturewalker's huge list is legit. of course.

Yes, very legit points if you are a vegan or vegetarian. That said, I Googled "Healthy Foods To Eat" and got 436,000,000 hits. Apparently it is possible to discuss such subjects and even compile lists with suggestions. The mountains do not have to crumble to the sea before we can come to some general place of recognition and understanding.

Which is why I say that labels like "chakra-enhancing" and "vegan" will only limit any discussion. You won't end up with a list of healthy foods, you will end up with a list of healthy food suggestions for one small group of people only. But since this is a thread for vegans and people who enjoy waffles on occasion, I guess that's that.

[Gem]

Most of the 'health food' rhetoric is a myth, but of course fresh unprocessed foods are generally more nutritious than processed calorie dense foods with little nutritional value. But, for example, if a diet is deficient in fat, a pack of crisps would be more nutritious than steamed potato...



People usually overlook the essentials of nutrition because vitamins are the most promoted nutrients, but the way I look at nutrition is in the familiar food triangle shape, though I organise it differently.


On the foundation, or the base of the triangle is 'CALORIES', which is the energy quantity. The body needs energy to operate so getting enough fuel is the 'bottom line'.


The next level up on the triangle above calories is 'MACRO NUTRIENTS' which are fat, protein and carbohydrates. These three contain (just about) all the calories. Getting the right amount of protein, fat and carbs is how calories are properly distributed into the right 'fuel mixture'.


The next level up on the triangle is MICRONUTRIENTS, which are all the vitamins and minerals, and basically, a few handfuls of different coloured fruit and veg a day should provide what is necessary.


The next level up is MEAL FREQUENCY, which is how many meals one eats in a day and when they eat them. Some like 6 small meals and others like 2 large meals. It doesn't matter so that's just 'what works best for you'. What does matter is the three aspects mentioned above are included in said meal frequency plan.


At the top of the triangle is SUPPLEMENTS. There is no point taking supplements if the four lower tiers are not established. Supplements do not replace food. However, most people would have a nutrient deficiency and the right supplimentation would optimise their nutrition - and this is especially true for vegans, who have inadequate sources of B12 vitamins for example.


Should a person wish to optimise their nutrition, see a qualified professional dietician. Do not ascribe to spiritual stuff promoted by people who have no proper knowledge in nutrition.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Gem

Do not ascribe to spiritual stuff promoted by people who have no proper knowledge in nutrition.

You toss that jab into your comments a lot, seemingly as a middle finger to the spiritual crowd. Heaven help that a spiritual person posting on a spiritual forum dare to make suggestions. Yes, let's just follow the advice of the typical and non-spiritual "nutritional expert" as you say, who tells us a proper diet includes milk, eggs and meat.

Not to mention you're telling people to eat processed junk food rather than a potato, because the processed junk food would be... more nutritious?! I know you're not spiritual, you've made that clear for years now. But it seems you need to refine your do-not-ascribe comment to also include people who don't dabble in spiritual stuff. Junk food more nutritious than a potato....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Baile

You toss that jab into your comments a lot, seemingly as a middle finger to the spiritual crowd. Heaven help that a spiritual person posting on a spiritual forum dare to make suggestions. Yes, let's just follow the advice of the typical and non-spiritual "nutritional expert" as you say, who tells us a proper diet includes milk, eggs and meat.

Of course, a professional dietician would not recommend animal options for vegans, but suggest vegan options.



Being spiritual does not qualify anyone to give dietary advice (The OP is proof enough of that).

Not to mention you're telling people to eat processed junk food rather than a potato, because the processed junk food would be... more nutritious?!

On the contrary, I said fresh unprocessed food is generally best, caveat being, the fat content of crisps is more nutritious than a boiled potato if a person was deficient in dietary fats.

I know you're not spiritual, you've made that clear for years now. But it seems you need to refine your do-not-ascribe comment to also include people who don't dabble in spiritual stuff. Junk food more nutritious than a potato....

I pointed out how nutrition is structured into calories, macronutrients, micronutrients, meal frequency, and finally supplementation (which is particularly important for vegans).