The Crucifixion was The Devil's trick to catch our attention.

[Honza]

This is only a hypothesis, so don't everyone get their knickers in a twist; but what if the Crucifixion was The Devil's trick to catch our attention? It worked didn't it? It certainly caught our attention and now we are all surrendering to Him in droves; instead of surrendering to God.

It is the sort of trick The Devil would play to stop Man & God from being together. From becoming ONE!

I acknowledge that this is a thread on Judaism, however Christians as I'm sure you know, believe that Christ is God incarnate in human form, and that God had to offer Himself as a sacrifice on the cross the the sins of all people, past and present.

I don't think it is Satans trick. Perhaps the Devil prefers to trick people into dismissing the divinity of Christ or of His bodily resurrection?

Many liberal "Christians" don't belive in the actual incarnation, virgin birth or resurrection and think that they are merely symbolic...

Symbolic... even the symbolism doesn't make sense.

God has to walk as one of us? Why? So he can show that he can empathize with us?

One of the basic teachings of Judaism is 'bring people up to holiness, don't bring holiness down to people'. In other words, set high standards and help people strive for them instead of making things easy just so people can feel like they succeed.

Why have a virgin birth? To have God's incarnation be pure?

In Judaism, Sex is the holiest of holy acts! It's the closest thing a person can do to achieving a state of godliness because it's an act that can CREATE life.

Why kill God? So that we can see that he sacrifices for us?

Hello! He CREATED us! His whole essence is involved in supporting and guiding us! "It is better to live for God than die for God".

and then coming back to life afterwards? What's that all about? To show that God still exists?

God Is, Was and always Will Be.


Sorry christianity, your basic tenets are not only unnecessary, but also lead people astray with unfulfilling, degrading and weakening philosophies.

Satan is not separate from you..

Satan is a consciousness, when we start realising this we will stop pointing the finger at external sources when things go wrong! These are not acts of satan, just our shadow aspects, the parts of us that we need to own and accept before we can stand in a place of wholeness!

Same with God, it's a higher intelligence that binds all life, that makes the atom vibrate and holds all life in place.. We are those atoms, powered by this intelligence.. We are God / God is us.. One-ness

As above so below, as within so without

[Mathew James]

Originally Posted by Honza

...we are all surrendering to Him in droves;...

not sure, but it may only be the Christians that believe the stories about Jesus being part of the Holy One. It seams to be a test/trial for them instead of a trick.

mj

Very valid points, thanks for allowing me to contribute to the discussion.

[RabbiO]

Originally Posted by Yamah

Sorry christianity, your basic tenets are not only unnecessary, but also lead people astray with unfulfilling, degrading and weakening philosophies.

Yamah,

You and I are Jews, shaped by the wisdom of the tradition that is woven into the very fabric of our lives. While there are certain almost universal values that we share in common with the members of different spiritual traditions, there are also many areas where they differ. That is to be expected.

While we may disagree with the positions of other religions, I think your last comment was an unnecessary put down on a tradition that our own.

B'shalom,

Peter

If I was to say 'Disney's philosophies are unfulfilling, degrading and weakening', what would you say?

If I said 'Hitler's philosophies are unfulfilling, degrading and weakening', what would you say?

In some of those cases you might disagree with me but your reaction wouldn't automatically be 'YOU CAN'T DO THAT!' Why is it not OK to put down other religions, when they are clearly not only false but also evil? Specifically Christianity because they are abusing the crown - using the Torah to not only teach degrading philosophies but also to justify committing all kinds of heinous acts, such as mass murders, pillaging of foreign lands and the enslavement of other nations. They are perverting the Torah to read things into it which never even remotely existed within it which leads right to the edge of what could be called blasphemy.

Furthermore, because Christianity was spawned from Judaism and uses Jewish texts and tenets as a basis for their belief structure I believe I have even more of a right, dare I say a responsibility, to set the record straight. If your son goes and robs a bank, would you not feel guilty and ashamed yourself? Since we know where Christianity came from AND we know what its basic teachings are we are precisely in the position to speak out against it.

FURTHERMORE! This is the Judaism sub-forum - our own home turf. Christians beware when entering here, speak only if you wish your beliefs to be questioned.

To be clear, I'm not putting down traditions that aren't our own. I have a lot of respect for Buddhism, Taoism and even Native American Shamanism. I'm putting down Christianity because it is WRONG and EVIL. I would do the same against Disneyism and Naziism.

[Honza]

So what is wrong with Disney?

[charly233]

Originally Posted by Yamah

If I was to say 'Disney's philosophies are unfulfilling, degrading and weakening', what would you say?

If I said 'Hitler's philosophies are unfulfilling, degrading and weakening', what would you say?

It seems to me that the xian blood sacrifice doctrine is degrading and weakening.

But many xians don't go along with this and not all xian spirtuality should be tarred with this brush. For example I find the notion of cosmic Christ consciousness and the notion of a self-deified Christ to be very attractive.