Why does God not show him/her/itself?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Baile

............... n/m

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Baile

Ha! I logged on after being away for months, just to respond to this. :) I understand your question Busby which, as you pointed out, isn't being addressed in the many answers you've received, the ones I've read anyway. My own take: You first have to believe in a God (or a Something or Thing) which exists in such a way that it has the capacity to reveal itself in the manner you are speaking of. But if that Being-Thing doesn't in fact exist in that capacity and manner, then there's your answer! At the same time, I agree (vibrate baby!) with the essence of what most here are saying: "God" (Spirit) is revealed at all times and in every moment. Living life is the process of waking up to that reality, and learning to observe it in the world.

I'd noticed that you had vanished Baile. Then I noticed your absence. Not quite the same thing…

My question is, as you have seen, addressed to those here who represent true Biblical God believers, I have no other ulterior motive.

God, or at least one of his reps did however show herself to a great crowd - I'm talking here of Fatima in Portugal. Where very strange things happened.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Busby

My question is, as you have seen, addressed to those here who represent true Biblical God believers, I have no other ulterior motive.

Okay. But that's a very narrow conversational road traveling in one very specific direction, and no wonder you're getting the answers you're getting. How else is a Christian who believes in a God of the sort you're describing and asking about, going to respond?

It sounds as if you're more interested in singling out and challenging "true God believers" as you put it, than engaging in an open, authentic exploration of the question you put forward. That's your privilege of course, and it doesn't bother me; I'm simply pointing all that out from a logic perspective.

That said, I don't understand what you hope to gain. If you despise the viewpoint of a particular religion or belief system, what is achieved by confronting those "true believers"? They won't change, so what's the point? At that point, your frustration with their inability to understand the question, is all on you, and not on them.

This thread topic should be re-titled, "I have a confrontational question about a God I have no actual interest in." That would certainly be more truthful, and would probably result in a much more productive examination. I say that because the truth, and real point of this topic, would be out there in plain view, right from the beginning. Truth frees us up to have real conversations. Whereas this thread has turned into a defiant argument, and it's been going nowhere for pages.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Baile

Okay. But that's a very narrow conversational road traveling in one very specific direction, and no wonder you're getting the answers you're getting. How else is a Christian who believes in a God of the sort you're describing and asking about, going to respond?

It sounds as if you're more interested in singling out and challenging "true God believers" as you put it, than engaging in an open, authentic exploration of the question you put forward. That's your privilege of course, and it doesn't bother me; I'm simply pointing all that out from a logic perspective.

That said, I don't understand what you hope to gain. If you despise the viewpoint of a particular religion or belief system, what is achieved by confronting those "true believers"? They won't change, so what's the point? At that point, your frustration with their inability to understand the question, is all on you, and not on them.

This thread topic should be re-titled, "I have a confrontational question about a God I have no actual interest in." That would certainly be more truthful, and would probably result in a much more productive examination. I say that because the truth, and real point of this topic, would be out there in plain view, right from the beginning. Truth frees us up to have real conversations. Whereas this thread has turned into a defiant argument, and it's been going nowhere for pages.

The question is, I believe, quite a simple one. And I gave an example of how it could be done - having Fatima in mind. I was hoping for a simple answer, how would it be if we were all faced with an unremitting truth. As I'm not confronting anyone or challenging anyone my hopes were quite modest. Maybe there would be those who would give a sigh of relief or those who might think that suddenly things had become too easy, or those who having known that they were right or wrong about their beliefs would feel vindicated, and so on. Those are a couple of indications how Christians could have responded.

Let's be clear here - there is nothing in this world that I despise and I don't get frustrated. The responses to this question came mainly in the form of preaching, biblical quotes, admonishments about my inability to see the trees waving in the wind and an obvious wish hidden between the lines not to be faced with any form of truth.

That's how I see it.

[Miss Hepburn]

I'm reading 'The Divine Romance" by Gene Edwards...diff than Yogananda's.

It is made pretty clear that God and the angels were in the invisible realm.
Then, hey, here's an idea...how about the visible?
Just the way it is...unless the effort is made to see 'through the veil'...
sometimes the effort is just the desire...using our Inner Eye.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Busby

Let's be clear here - there is nothing in this world that I despise and I don't get frustrated.

My apologies then. I suppose I suggested that because it seems to me you challenge Christianity quite a bit, in your own unique way let's say. Even here you spoke of "true God believers." And not just God believers, but true God believers. There's a difference there, and I believe you worded it that way for extra emphasis.

Anyway... so you are asking Christians why their God doesn't reveal Himself (as Christians would refer to Him).

Some of the forum spiritualists and non-religious types posted their thoughts about "God" being all around us etc. But you refuted/rejected those observations, stating that wasn't what you were asking about, or were interested in discussing. You said you have a very specific question about God appearing, one that nobody was answering. So that's that for that line of conversational exploration.

Then I posted what I did. I thought I was offering a very solid logic reply, which did in fact address your specific question. You replied that your question was specifically directed at Christians, something I honestly had no idea about when I posted. So that is that for me as well.

The way things are left now: there is a very specific question you have asked, for Christians only, and you will discuss that question alone. They must address your question (only) and provide you with an answer that satisfies you somehow. Those are the rules of engagement you have set for this discussion. Nothing else is allowed, and you've made that clear.

The restrictions you've placed on this dialogue feel remarkably similar to the restrictions I felt when involved with a cult for many years. Only certain questions and responses were deemed valid, and only certain viewpoints accepted for consideration. And everything, always, controlled by one individual. That observation is of much greater interest to me than this question about God showing up!

EDIT and last word: It seems to me if this question was meant for true God-believing Christians alone, and if hearing an explanation from Christians only was the desire, then it should have been asked in the Christianity Forum. No wonder the non-religious types have been coming here with their spiritual thoughts and observations, and throwing a monkey wrench into the works! We were confused, thinking the General Beliefs forum means general belief comments are okay. And now I'm not confused and I have my joyful clarity back, so I'm good.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Baile

Anyway... so you are asking Christians why their God doesn't reveal Himself (as Christians would refer to Him).

... The restrictions you've placed on this dialogue feel remarkably similar to the restrictions I felt when involved with a cult for many years. Only certain questions and responses were deemed valid, and only certain viewpoints accepted for consideration. And everything, always, controlled by one individual. That observation is of much greater interest to me than this question about God showing up!

Busby's 'set up' here strikes me as being quite similar to those of 'sceptics' who say: "If ET's and UFO's are real, why haven't they shown themselves to 'us' more definitively?" lol!

Also similar to those of the 'skeptics' who want, or at least 'challenge', others to 'prove' to them, that is to provide them with absolutely reliable (meaning reliably replicable) demonstrations (lol, again) that 'physic phenomena' and 'spiritual capabilities' are real ('real' in the standard sense of what's regarded as being so, for the most part at least, in the 'field' of 'physics' today.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Busby's 'set up' here strikes me as being quite similar to those of 'sceptics' who say: "If ET's and UFO's are real, why haven't they shown themselves to 'us' more definitively?" lol!

Also similar to those of the 'skeptics' who want, or at least 'challenge', others to 'prove' to them, that is to provide them with absolutely reliable (meaning reliably replicable) demonstrations (lol, again) that 'physic phenomena' and 'spiritual capabilities' are real ('real' in the standard sense of what's regarded as being so, for the most part at least, in the 'field' of 'physics' today.

Yes Davidson, I agree, and not because we're buddies. This is why I suggested that being honest from the beginning with regards to the real topic -- A question for Christians about a God I don't personally don't believe in nor have time for -- would have allowed an authentic dialogue to unfold. Instead, we're left with pages of invalidation comments and arguments. On a personal note, it's why I haven't been on a forum in many months. The body and mind and psyche grows sick with this stuff. I'm already thinking, PC you go back in the closet!

[Busby]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Busby's 'set up' here strikes me as being quite similar to those of 'sceptics' who say: "If ET's and UFO's are real, why haven't they shown themselves to 'us' more definitively?" lol!

Also similar to those of the 'skeptics' who want, or at least 'challenge', others to 'prove' to them, that is to provide them with absolutely reliable (meaning reliably replicable) demonstrations (lol, again) that 'physic phenomena' and 'spiritual capabilities' are real ('real' in the standard sense of what's regarded as being so, for the most part at least, in the 'field' of 'physics' today.

I'm losing track here myself.

All I asked, and it was quite simple, plus giving an example of how 'God' could show itself, and yes, I do have the word god in inverted commas - not because of my understanding of anything at all but because the biblical figure is the one most promoted in the western world and means different things to different people. So 'God' can really mean anything.

Nor was it in any way my intention to get anyone to prove anything in any way.

If people responded in a fashion that didn't meet my expectations then my input was in vain.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Baile

Yes Davidson, I agree, and not because we're buddies. This is why I suggested that being honest from the beginning with regards to the real topic -- A question for Christians about a God I don't personally don't believe in nor have time for -- would have allowed an authentic dialogue to unfold. Instead, we're left with pages of invalidation comments and arguments. On a personal note, it's why I haven't been on a forum in many months. The body and mind and psyche grows sick with this stuff. I'm already thinking, PC you go back in the closet!

Just think of yourself as a long-legged heron, looking for something delicious to snap up, savor and possibly add (by way of response) Life to - it is possible (that is, if you yogically set your mind-n-heart on so doing) to enjoy oneself and be of loving cheer (to others) while wading about in 'marshy' places, ya know! If you don't, I'm telling you, based on my personal experience, it is!

It takes some self-discipline + positive thinking (so as to preclude 'stray' emotions from getting the better of one's self in the process) to do so, though.

Heron's are selective in what they 'go' for - only 'yummy' fishes will do!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gepRyOILsxE

Do stick around, for the sake of my enjoyment if nothing else, Bro!

LOL!