Karma of casting spells

Originally Posted by Jenny Crow

Actually, several participants died but that had nothing to do with the spell being positive or negative. That rite went on for hours with so very much energy being raised and put out by everyone that some peoples' bodies just could not take it.

Agreed, but that's my point. If you constantly give away too much, you are going to be weakened. Its not just the short term physical fitness issue. If it was, then the people that died in the New Forest spell would have done so there and then, not days later. I.e. if you are going to die of physical exhaustion, or physical exertion related injuries such as heart attack, you're going to do so there and then.

We we give away some of our energy, for any spell (and personally I don't like the term 'spell', but I guess that's what it is), we effectively give away some of our life force.

A few years ago, my step father was diagnosed with a very serious, life threatening illness. The doctors said there was stuff they could try, but it was all dependent on him being strong enough to endure the very harsh treatments. I didn't think he was (but of course would not tell my wife, his daughter that). So over the course of several days, I would spend a couple of hours per evening meditating, and casting my energy towards him. Somehow I knew it wasn't enough but I gave as much as I dared spare. I knew I was taking a risk myself, because if he died, the energy I gave away would be lost to me. Unfortunately he did die. That was a few years ago now. Prior to that, I was always in good health and physically fit. My health and fitness dropped drastically around that time, and despite my efforts, I'm still not back to where I ought to be.

There is a good reason why most people don't try to do magic all the time, and this is it. It takes energy out of you, and the more powerful the magic, and the more frequent the attempt, the more energy is lost. You can get it back, but it takes time and rest and sometimes a nice dose of positive energy input from those around us.

[Gem]

I tried to validate the story about WWII and there's nothing much from objective sources, but apparently, those who died there or soon after were of frail age and succumbed to exposure related symptoms.

"Louis Wilkinson claimed that it was because they had performed the ritual naked, without goose grease on the skin to keep them warm, and that as such they had contracted pneumonia. Investigating these claims, Heselton found two locals who died soon after the ritual: a reporter, Walter Forder (1881-1940), and a blacksmith, Charles Loader (1864-1940), whom he speculated were involved in the rite.[17]"

Originally Posted by Gem

"Louis Wilkinson claimed that it was because they had performed the ritual naked, without goose grease on the skin to keep them warm, and that as such they had contracted pneumonia. Investigating these claims, Heselton found two locals who died soon after the ritual: a reporter, Walter Forder (1881-1940), and a blacksmith, Charles Loader (1864-1940), whom he speculated were involved in the rite.[17]"

I don't know Louis Wilkinson, but I'd suggest he is wrong. You don't contract cold related ailments while dancing energetically around a massive fire.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Badger1777

I don't know Louis Wilkinson, but I'd suggest he is wrong. You don't contract cold related ailments while dancing energetically around a massive fire.

I have no idea and I can't find a reliable source, but I think naming two persons who were speculated to attend the ritual indicates a diligent effort on the part of the author, who found no solid evidence of Gardner's claims of deaths, but made some findings based on circumstantial evidence.

If anyone has any reliable information from an objective source, I'd find that really interesting.

Of course, elderly people dancing around naked in a ritualistic hysteria in the an English forest would be at risk of exhaustion and exposure.

[Lilyth Von Gore]

Badger, where are you from?
New Forest is in England. England can get very cold, and if you're skyclad, a fire isn't going to do much. We have a bonfire every year for November Fifth. Even with a large bonfire, it's still really cold, even with thick clothes on and hats, scarves and gloves.
Doesn't matter what age you are. Anyone can catch pneumonia, anyone can die from it, and it can take a few days to die from pneumonia. I can imagine that back in the 40s pneumonia was a death sentence.

[knightofalbion]

The reason Hitler didn't invade was because the Luftwaffe lost the Battle of Britain, thanks to the sterling efforts of the outnumbered RAF.

If the Luftwaffe had won the Battle of Britain either the Germans would have launched a full scale invasion, protected by the necessary air cover, or they would have carpet bombed Britain into surrender and submission.

Originally Posted by Lilyth Von Gore

Badger, where are you from?
New Forest is in England. England can get very cold, and if you're skyclad, a fire isn't going to do much. We have a bonfire every year for November Fifth. Even with a large bonfire, it's still really cold, even with thick clothes on and hats, scarves and gloves.
Doesn't matter what age you are. Anyone can catch pneumonia, anyone can die from it, and it can take a few days to die from pneumonia. I can imagine that back in the 40s pneumonia was a death sentence.

I am from Northern England. It is warm enough here to be comfortable, even in winter, when standing next to a bonfire, never mind dancing round one.

Scotland is not much colder than Northern England, unless perhaps if you're right up in the top right corner. Perhaps your bonfire night celebrations don't involve a big fire? Or perhaps health and safety have been meddling and put the cordon 3 miles back?

@KnightOfAlbion, I am as patriotic as you are, but Britain could not logically win. Britain was not winning. hitler's forces swept through Europe as though there as no resistance. They made it to the coast of Normandy, just 22 miles from England. They had the first long range missiles, a superior air force, and a superior navy. Do you really think he would choose to just stop there? It is not spooky heresay that hitler faltered. That is historical fact, well documented, and as yet not understood. The best theory is that hitler lost his nerve, but does that sound right? Having seized pretty much the whole of north west Europe, as well as most of the rest of Europe and parts of North Africa, is he really likely to have thought it too dangerous to take little old Britain?

Britain won because hitler faltered. He hesitated. And as any tactician knows, if you snooze, you lose. With superior technology, greater numbers of everything, and the momentum of military success on his side, why did he hesitate?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Badger1777

I am from Northern England. It is warm enough here to be comfortable, even in winter, when standing next to a bonfire, never mind dancing round one.

Scotland is not much colder than Northern England, unless perhaps if you're right up in the top right corner. Perhaps your bonfire night celebrations don't involve a big fire? Or perhaps health and safety have been meddling and put the cordon 3 miles back?

@KnightOfAlbion, I am as patriotic as you are, but Britain could not logically win. Britain was not winning. hitler's forces swept through Europe as though there as no resistance. They made it to the coast of Normandy, just 22 miles from England. They had the first long range missiles, a superior air force, and a superior navy. Do you really think he would choose to just stop there? It is not spooky heresay that hitler faltered. That is historical fact, well documented, and as yet not understood. The best theory is that hitler lost his nerve, but does that sound right? Having seized pretty much the whole of north west Europe, as well as most of the rest of Europe and parts of North Africa, is he really likely to have thought it too dangerous to take little old Britain?

Britain won because hitler faltered. He hesitated. And as any tactician knows, if you snooze, you lose. With superior technology, greater numbers of everything, and the momentum of military success on his side, why did he hesitate?

Because a coven did a dance in the dead of night?

Originally Posted by Gem

Because a coven did a dance in the dead of night?

This is typical human nature. One thing on its own is not enough to result in a certain outcome, so therefore that one thing is dismissed entirely, rather than it being acknowledged that the outcome could have been the result of many cumulative factors.

Of course WW2 was not won because some people danced round a fire. Of course it was not won because some people exerted every ounce of energy they could muster to try to have some small influence on the minds of the enemy. To suggest it was would be both absurd, and insulting to the many thousands of men and women who fought extremely hard on every front.

At no point did I suggest that some witches won the war. You may want to actually read what I said rather than paraphrasing and manipulating it to suit your own argument, which again is another typical human trait. Then you would see that I observed that there is a possible coincidence between this alleged event, and hitler's unexplained hesitation which gave us a slight advantage against a militarily superior force.

But I duck out of this now. Rewinding back to the original topic of this thread, I maintain that exerting energy for magic does take its toll. Clearly my view is not the same as many here, who seem to believe that there is no price for such things. So we have a difference of opinion, that's fine. Either or both could be right or wrong.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Badger1777

@KnightOfAlbion, I am as patriotic as you are, but Britain could not logically win. Britain was not winning. hitler's forces swept through Europe as though there as no resistance. They made it to the coast of Normandy, just 22 miles from England. They had the first long range missiles, a superior air force, and a superior navy. Do you really think he would choose to just stop there? It is not spooky heresay that hitler faltered. That is historical fact, well documented, and as yet not understood. The best theory is that hitler lost his nerve, but does that sound right? Having seized pretty much the whole of north west Europe, as well as most of the rest of Europe and parts of North Africa, is he really likely to have thought it too dangerous to take little old Britain?

Britain won because hitler faltered. He hesitated. And as any tactician knows, if you snooze, you lose. With superior technology, greater numbers of everything, and the momentum of military success on his side, why did he hesitate?

You cannot launch a seaborne invasion without air superiority. That's why the invasion didn't happen.