Witch not Wiccan

Originally Posted by norseman

Witch Craft dates back to millenia before the Graeco-Roman pantheon !

Can you point towards any evidence of this?

Originally Posted by Animus27

There are differences between Wicca and witchcraft, for certain. But witchcraft is not a religion. It's a magical practice. When you say "belief system" you're insinuating that witchcraft has a defining belief that is common to all self proclaimed witches; and as in the case of Wiccans insisting that all pagans follow the law of threefold return, it sorely misses the reality.

One can be an atheist witch, a Satanic witch, a Celtic polytheist witch, and countless others that have no connection between them besides the use of the word "witch".

I think that there's not enough "witches, but not Wiccans" around on the forum to constitute a separate subforum. But you're more than welcome to the pagan subforum.

We have no religion no diety but when doing magicks we do have a belief system sorry for the confusion

Originally Posted by Medium_Laura

Definition of a cult is : A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

So yes, all religions with an "icon" or "God-head" are a cult. It's not a bad thing, it's just a word.

Yes but a traditional witch doesnt believe in a diety just in the magicks. its up to the individual person not witch to believe in a diety. I have met Christian witches.Wiccan Witches,Jewish Witches, you get the idea.

Originally Posted by Etu Malku

There is absolutely nothing in common between Christianity and Satanism.

Anton Levay purposely created the Church of Satan for another way of thinking in a non fear based religion if it wasnt for Christianity there wouldnt have been a church of Satan.

Maybe the a thread was not needed again it was a suggestion but its intresting to see your views on wicca and witchcraft.
I get tired of people asking me my beliefs I tell them I am a Witch they say "Oh Wiccan" no witch so your a bad witch. Umm no. I dont float or turn people into newts or fly without my besom LOL

[norseman]

Originally Posted by Etu Malku

Can you point towards any evidence of this?

Various Neolithic monuments in Britain and Northern Europe in general. Also votive objects [shamanic] being dredged from the bottom of the North Sea which was formed by the submersion of the plain at the end of the last Ice Age around 6000 BC.

[norseman]

Originally Posted by Occultist

Maybe the a thread was not needed again it was a suggestion but its intresting to see your views on wicca and witchcraft.
I get tired of people asking me my beliefs I tell them I am a Witch they say "Oh Wiccan" no witch so your a bad witch. Umm no. I dont float or turn people into newts or fly without my besom LOL

No worries, Occultist. Each Craft user is individual and cannot be pigeon-holed [see I am sticking to my dislike of "witch" ].
Wicca is a subject that can raise a lot of discord !

Originally Posted by norseman

Various Neolithic monuments in Britain and Northern Europe in general. Also votive objects [shamanic] being dredged from the bottom of the North Sea which was formed by the submersion of the plain at the end of the last Ice Age around 6000 BC.

Technically that isn't witchcraft. Votive objects aren't necessarily shamanic in nature either, the Keltoi and Germanii (sticking with Northern European examples) both used votive objects in wells and bogs, and neither of them had a very strong shamanic tradition within their cultures, unless one holds to the unlikely idea of Seithr being a form of Norse shamanism.

If the discovery of such objects implied the practice of what people call witch-craft nowadays, then nearly all religions would be forms of a witch cult - an idea Margaret Murray would love.

[norseman]

OK but don't forget "witch" is a fairly recent invention. Go back to the original - Craft of the Wise, or Cunning Craft, or just Craft. There was a neolithic shamanic line in Northern Europe. The votive objects from the North Sea plain are wide-spread and the Dutch trawlers have found hundreds of thousands of these objects which is a lot different to a few objects found in wells and bogs.

Regarding a sub-forum, I would be OK if this forum was just part of the Pagan forum.

Originally Posted by Occultist

Anton Levay purposely created the Church of Satan for another way of thinking in a non fear based religion if it wasnt for Christianity there wouldnt have been a church of Satan.

Being an ex-Temple of Set member, I will have to disagree with you here . . .
A quick read through Dr. Aquino's definitive book on the CoS will clearly put into perspective what the CoS was and wasn't all about.