Freedom - what does it entail?

Originally Posted by iamthat

And what is the nature of this "me" which you want to free to be?.

In a nutshell,'me' means soul unchained.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Can we really do as we please, irrespective of those around us?

Yes,absolutely!

Originally Posted by iamthat

Are we free to have perfect health, free to buy whatever we want, free from suffering, pain and death?

We are free to experience ying and yang,irrespective on how one may choose to limit and be affected by the mind.

Originally Posted by iamthat

Can we really avoid participating in whatever system we happen to live in?

Yes,if your not a neurotypical.

Originally Posted by iamthat

I suggest that freedom is found in what we are, not what we can or cannot do.

'Freedom is finding what we are'...Exactly,hence 'me'.: )

Originally Posted by Elabr8Aspie

Peace.

[sound]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hey Sound,

These forums seem to fluctuate at times.

I remember back when it got pretty lively. It is amazing that this site is still buzzing.
Seems many Spiritual forums fade away or members are sporadic when it comes to posting.

Yes most definitely ... and that can be for a myriad of reasons ... even something simple like the format for posting, or the aesthetics, too many rules, not enough rules

It would be interesting to see what some of the older members think today.

Well that's life, things change and some hang around, while others move on. I feel it can be liberating when able to go with the changes. It is also liberating to meet up with those from the past and see how each have progressed, yet still hold the energy one has become fond of.

Yes .. change is inevitable, and more often than not, refreshing, even if we don’t always embrace it at the time ... that energy is probably what I miss the most too, but also appreciate that the forum has, and will continue to evolve ... I haven’t logged on for a long time but have always managed to keep reading and following particular threads and draw lots from the wisdom of the members who make up the community these days ... devolution built a strong foundation, which I don’t think has been replicated, after all these years ...

Take care and blessings.

Likewise ... return blessings

[sound]

Originally Posted by janielee

Hi sound

Nice to meet you. I have noticed that too...

JL

Hi Janielee ... lovely to meet you too

[Molearner]

"Know the truth and the truth shall set you free". IMO, knowing the truth is what makes true freedom possible. It might sound totally counter-intuitive but normally people have the tendency to believe that multiplicity of choices is definitive of freedom but, in reality, it seems, IMO, that absence of choices is more likely to provide the greatest measure of freedom. When we speak of choices we are subscribing to the exercise of judgement.....i.e. right vs. wrong, good vs. bad, good/better/best, etc. This is the world of duality and paramount to making choices is our exercise of ego. We choose/pick what we deem to be the best for our survival. Every choice has the potential of imposing its own form of slavery. If there exists an ultimate truth and we can be tuned to that it eliminates any other thing as being a 'choice'. If one believes in something that we call 'heaven' it is impossible to view that place as one of contention, argument, disagreeing, etc. which are all the result of either the choices that we make or those that others make. In a way, IamThat pointed to that(perhaps subliminally) when he/she suggested 'no thought' as being conducive to freedom.

[weareunity]

Hello Molelearner and all.

Molelearner, in your post immediately before this post as I reply, you express the view that " we choose/pick what we deem to be the best for our survival". Do you think that is always the case, or is it simply that we tend to?--no criticism intended, simply wondering if you believe as you have stated.

petex

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Hello Molelearner and all.

Molelearner, in your post immediately before this post as I reply, you express the view that " we choose/pick what we deem to be the best for our survival". Do you think that is always the case, or is it simply that we tend to?--no criticism intended, simply wondering if you believe as you have stated.

petex

weareunity,

I try to avoid using 'always' and 'never' because there will always appear to be an exception to the rule. So, yes, I would say that we 'tend to' to choose what we deem to be the best for our survival. This, of course, is relative to the level of our spirtual development......meaning to the extent that we have been able to step out of the bounds that our ego attempts to limit our progress.

The whole thrust of what I was attempting to articulate was to address what constitutes true freedom. The traditional Christian mystic path represents a progression of purification to illumination to finally one of union with the divine(God). This final step is what some might term as 'putting on the mind of Christ' and being one with God. It is in this final state that we can say with meaning and understanding.....'thy will be done'(not our will be done). It is in this stage that we are able to eliminate 'bad choices' and that the acquistion of truth removes all other temptations(choices). It remains my contention that 'choices' are basically ego-driven(with the exception that I noted as being contingent on our progress on the spiritual path).

As I stated in my original post this seems counter-intuitive to our normal notions of the character of freedom......i.e. most viewing freedom as being able to avail ourselves of innumerable choices.

[sound]

Originally Posted by Molearner

weareunity,

I try to avoid using 'always' and 'never' because there will always appear to be an exception to the rule.

Hi Molearner
This is a very interesting statement ... my first instinct was to reply in a playful way, and highlight the obvious contradiction, but after reading it over a few times it provoked more thought ... now it’s just doing my head in lol

Originally Posted by weareunity

" we choose/pick what we deem to be the best for our survival".

Yes we do as studies have shown. It comes from the Limbic System of the brain, which is inaccurately referred to as the "lizard brain" because it's so primal. Our choices come from the subconscious mind initially, which is essentially a 'committee' of 'members' such as past experience, agenda, feelings and the like. All or a number of those can affect what is decided. About 200 milliseconds later the conscious mind is aware of it.

Originally Posted by Molearner

This, of course, is relative to the level of our spirtual development......meaning to the extent that we have been able to step out of the bounds that our ego attempts to limit our progress.

What does the word 'ego' mean to you personally, and where does that definition come from? I'm not a shrink and I wonder how many of the people who are so assured of what the ego is have any background in psychology. If I want true freedom and the truth shall set us free then I want as much truth as I can find. Narrative and Spiritual urban legend as truth doesn't constitute truth nor true freedom.

According to Jung what most people call the ego is not the ego at all but the 'contents' of the ego, and Spitituality constitutes 'contents'. In simple terms the ego gives us a sense of "I am" and without it you wouldn't be able to function enough to make another post in here because you'd be so far gone. I've worked in mental health and seen what happens when people 'lose' their ego, it's really not pretty.

What makes more sense is using the Sanskrit word 'Maya' of false/conditioned lower-case 's' self.

Originally Posted by Molearner

The whole thrust of what I was attempting to articulate was to address what constitutes true freedom. The traditional Christian mystic path represents a progression of purification to illumination to finally one of union with the divine(God). This final step is what some might term as 'putting on the mind of Christ' and being one with God. It is in this final state that we can say with meaning and understanding.....'thy will be done'(not our will be done). It is in this stage that we are able to eliminate 'bad choices' and that the acquistion of truth removes all other temptations(choices). It remains my contention that 'choices' are basically ego-driven(with the exception that I noted as being contingent on our progress on the spiritual path).

What often happens when people decide they're Spiritual is that it sets off a 'chain reaction' of division; I'm Spiritual, they're not, I believe in this, they don't.... He's God I'm not. "They Will be done," not my will be done.

When your will becomes God's will? When you're more in harmony with the rest of the Universe around you and not in contention with it?

The Limbic System of the brain makes the 'initial' choice before it's then processed by the subconscious after being perceived as safe. The subconscious is a 'committee' of things like past experience, agenda, meantal and emotional health that makes the choices between them. About 200 milliseconds later the conscious mind becomes aware of it. We're also 'programmed' to move towards what feels good and move away from what feels bad, again it's a survival mechanism. If you're Spirituality feels good then your survival skills are in good shape.

One of the most impenetrable obstacles to Spiritual understanding is the word 'Spiritual', because it divides and separates - and creates ignorance. If you don't Google for Jung and ego and ask yourself the reasons for that then you'll see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Molearner

As I stated in my original post this seems counter-intuitive to our normal notions of the character of freedom......i.e. most viewing freedom as being able to avail ourselves of innumerable choices.

Isn't your will becoming God's will not a choice made of freedom?

Samadhi is the dissolution of Maya or the false self, and although I've never actually achieved it entirely what I've read is quite intriguing. In one description the person said that when they were in Samadhi they didn't 'lose' their false self but they understood the part it played in their reaching Samadhi. From Maya/'ego contents' emerged Samadhi, but in order for that to happen a deeper understanding of the false self was needed.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

What does the word 'ego' mean to you personally, and where does that definition come from? I'm not a shrink and I wonder how many of the people who are so assured of what the ego is have any background in psychology. If I want true freedom and the truth shall set us free then I want as much truth as I can find. Narrative and Spiritual urban legend as truth doesn't constitute truth nor true freedom.

According to Jung what most people call the ego is not the ego at all but the 'contents' of the ego, and Spitituality constitutes 'contents'. In simple terms the ego gives us a sense of "I am" and without it you wouldn't be able to function enough to make another post in here because you'd be so far gone. I've worked in mental health and seen what happens when people 'lose' their ego, it's really not pretty.

Oops, my reply to you was lost. When I copied my reply it instead pasted a reply of mine to a different posting!!! It was frustrating and my train of thought was lost. Very briefly I was referring to what I view as uncontrolled ego and its various programs. I agreed with the necessity of ego but its value is found only in moderation. Also, that in its worst form, it develops or presents an illusion that compels us to pursue idols as opposed to the divine. The shortcuts it offers become impediments to the spiritual path.