the Right to Die

The concept of Habeas Corpus [Latin, You have the body.] rears it's head again...I'd say...Go your own way..Personally speaking....

[Tobi]

Originally Posted by Visitor

Sorry to read about this Tobi. It is very sad indeed.

When I worked as a relief counsellor in palliative care (2000-2005), the end of life plan was not yet conceived.
I just did an online research on the late 2009 program.
Though I understand the basic logic of the plan, it sure did lack availability of professional medical staff, and individual continuous assessment. In that regard nothing had improved since my time in the field.
It saddens me that the poor attitude of health care and medical staff have for those that are dying is still not properly addressed.
The attitude is similar to how some staff treat addicts and attempted suicide victims. Their attitude drops as soon as their hope of being able to make a difference drops.
It is sad that even after education about this very thing, they still opt for what is best for them instead of the patient.


Sorry for your grief Tobi.

Thank you for your compassion, Visitor.
My mother is all right now she has left that completely broken and worn out body. I have received 2 contacts from her since, one with love, and one with wry humour. But both contacts took over 4 of "my years" to receive.

I am not particularly blaming the medical staff in her case, or her consultant. To ordinary logic she could not have survived more than 24 hours after the withdrawing of all life support except pain relief. Not one of us even thought she would survive 12 hours, never mind 24 -or indeed a whole week.
She was in the frailest condition imaginable. She was also nearly 90. It was very strange indeed that she continued to live for a week, and was not logical in any way at all.

To the viewpoint of myself, my brother, m aunt, and friends of the family, it was the most tortuous experience, as we loved her and would have definitely wanted her released much sooner.

Yet a peculiar thing happened. About 2-3 weeks before she passed she told me my father (passed 1999) came to sit on her bed and talk to her. This was weird in itself as because of her dementia, she had no memory of my father, his name or even that she had been married. Yet in our conversation she was very lucid.
She told me he had come to take her with him, and said "Why don't you come with me now?" She refused, and said she still had something to do, and would go with him when she had finished. He said he'd wait for her and left.
Only a moment later she had no recollection of what she had just said to me.

So what I began to wonder, with hindsight, is that she must have had a Soul reason for hanging on in the body, even though to our outward view it looked tragic.
I think we can't see what is going on.
But to our view, seeing from the physical side of things, watching someone apparently linger or suffer is more than we can bear.

It is a very difficult question indeed. But all I know is that when we opt to have a beloved pet put to sleep, this does not hinder their spiritual 'cause' at all, and by-passes the dreadful end-stages of disease.

[Visitor]

Thanks Tobi for sharing your story about your mother's visitation.
To me, it is another example of how spirit-mind is different to body-mind. It also points to the idea that spirit-mind is not affected by body-mind ailments.
For me, that is good news.

[Tobi]

It does seem that dementia is not a Soul affliction but a physical affliction, from which we are released when we are no longer in the body. In the case of 'vascular dementia' a lack of circulation to different parts of the brain, so that these parts do not work.
But beyond that the Soul appears to have its own agenda.

How long it might take to recover from this on the other side, I can't say. I guess it might be different for each person. I intuit that my mother needed rest for a 'time'.

[revolver]

Originally Posted by Visitor

revolver, I am just sharing my personal experience on this topic that apparently is also in the Philosophy and Theory sub-forum.

Sorry you got upset with my post.

Hi Visitor, thanks, and I'm sorry for taking it personal, its just that memories were stirred up, but good to get it out and talk about it.

[Visitor]

Originally Posted by revolver

Hi Visitor, thanks, and I'm sorry for taking it personal, its just that memories were stirred up, but good to get it out and talk about it.

Hi revolver, same for me. I can relate.

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by skygazer

How do you feel about the right of an individual to die with dignity?

Some folks have it tattooed on their chest. "Do not resuscitate".
Some have a legal document in place, a "Living Will", that tells how they wish treatment decisions be made should the time come when they can not speak for themselves.

In the case of a terminal illness or prolonged comma would you agree that 'pulling the plug' is the ethical thing for your family to agree to?
What about in the case of physical disabilities that grow more complicated and painful as one ages?

As of 2015 Netherlands, Belgium, and Luxembourg have legal euthanasia in place.
Assisted suicide is legal in Switzerland, Germany, Albania, Colombia, Japan and in the US states of Washington, Oregon, Vermont, New Mexico and Montana.

skygazer - I was always a proponent of Dr. Jack Kovorkian's methods of assisting others with a dignified and painless death. I think we as humans take better care of our animals when it comes time to end their misery than we do with our fellow loved ones. I once was at the hospital bed of a woman that had severe lung cancer from smoking and she literally was lying in so much of her own phlegm that she literally couldn't get enough air in her nose or mouth to breathe. The staff would do nothing to comfort her, not even a sedative. Right then and there I made the decision for myself to never go on life support. I have it in writing. Why is it legal to put our pets to sleep painlessly and with dignity, but in most areas of the world, it's immoral or playing God to do so for humans?

[skygazer]

Kovorkian was vilified in a most horrendous way. It brings to mind the madness of the Christians against the Pagans of ancient days.

It is a paradox how the doctors not wanting the individual Person to play god with their Own life are actually playing god themselves. It really illustrates well for us, how our power is consistently taken from us, from birth until death.

I have other plans for myself as well.

Thanks for your thoughts, Blackraven.