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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 27-05-2020, 11:32 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
That's Sir Roger Penrose's contribution. He posits collapse of the wave function isn't due to observation, but collapses at an objective threshold based on spacetime geometry at the Planck Scale, resulting in an instance of proto-cosciousness.

Hameroff read his book where the above is posited (The Emperor's New Mind) and contacted him, saying he might have a mechanism for manifesting that proto-consciousness in the brain. In essence it's quantum entanglement between microtubules and wave function collapse.

Now from a non-dualist perspective one might say Wait! That keeps consciousness firmly within the realm of objective reality at the Planck Scale.

Well, since the Planck Scale is also part of Maya and Maya is a power of Brahman might not Brahman also be the power behind collapse of the wave function in order to serve Its purpose of experience through the many?
WHY SURE, why not, but see what you did there, you got it away from ol Max by saying even he, messin around at that tiny scale, is already Maya. Which makes good sense as it is at that scale that we first get wind of what is going on. We see probability becoming reality, waves becoming particles, even going backward in time to do so, just because we are observing it and we say, "A HA!" that must be the beginning of Maya. Everything from there on up is physicality built on that first illusion point. It makes sense.

Yet if I were writing a computer program to do something similar, I would not render up particles, atoms, or molecules unless I really needed to do so. If the table looks solid, let it be solid, it needs dimensions of space and mass, and perhaps color and grain, maybe a few other properties, but I don't need to build the whole thing up from particles each time my user looks at it. Easier to keep track of those macro scale properties. Now if you start sawing it up and looking at the dust under electron microscopes or other means, then perhaps I would need to call up those subroutines and show you those molecule or atomic components as if they were there all along. But just maybe they are only there when we go to look for them, like that electron supposedly flying through one or the other of the double slits. It's not anywhere until we look for it, we can only talk about the probability of where we might find it when we do look, where it will transform from probable to real. Perhaps, even the table is not there when you are not looking.

Of course, I would have to keep track of some information so I could properly render up whatever scale you wish to view, and then track where things would have been and what would have happened to them in between looks so that still would require some serious processor time. But whether the atoms are rendered into reality continuously, or just tracked as information of what would be if we were looking at the atomic scale, it is bound to tax our reality graphical processing unit, and slow down our computer overall. Which may make time seem a bit slower when we are closer to large massive objects. Of course, whizzing through space at near light speed would also tax that processor as it had to rapidly keep rendering reality on the fly, again slowing down the apparent clock speed.
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  #22  
Old 28-05-2020, 12:23 AM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
WHY SURE, why not, but see what you did there, you got it away from ol Max by saying even he, messin around at that tiny scale, is already Maya. Which makes good sense as it is at that scale that we first get wind of what is going on. We see probability becoming reality, waves becoming particles, even going backward in time to do so, just because we are observing it and we say, "A HA!" that must be the beginning of Maya. Everything from there on up is physicality built on that first illusion point. It makes sense.

I'm sure Max will indulge my hypothesis. LOL!

By the way, the quantum unit is a Quantum of Action and not space/time or energy, and that does seem to be the first manifestation within objective reality (Maya). Think about that...

Quantum of Action... Path of Action (Karma) ... Good-good, bad-bad, and no one escapes the law. Whoso wears a form, wears the chain.

Sean Carroll posits Ultimate Reality is the quantum mechanical wave function. One quantum mechanical wave function that is the foundation of existence. Perhaps Maya is all the quantum of actions appearing in that one wave function? The Power of Brahman manifesting physical reality (Maya) and Orch OR is His backdoor to eavesdrop on the goings on within Maya? The mechanism behind the Eye of the eye, Mind of the mind, Consciousness of the consciousness if you will.

https://youtu.be/z5qtyOwsiEk?t=158

Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Yet if I were writing a computer program to do something similar, I would not render up particles, atoms, or molecules unless I really needed to do so. If the table looks solid, let it be solid, it needs dimensions of space and mass, and perhaps color and grain, maybe a few other properties, but I don't need to build the whole thing up from particles each time my user looks at it. Easier to keep track of those macro scale properties. Now if you start sawing it up and looking at the dust under electron microscopes or other means, then perhaps I would need to call up those subroutines and show you those molecule or atomic components as if they were there all along. But just maybe they are only there when we go to look for them, like that electron supposedly flying through one or the other of the double slits. It's not anywhere until we look for it, we can only talk about the probability of where we might find it when we do look, where it will transform from probable to real. Perhaps, even the table is not there when you are not looking.

Brahman's a show off? LOL!
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  #23  
Old 28-05-2020, 06:44 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Resonance is indeed a word with meaning, perhaps it means more than we know, or perhaps in means what which we know as real.

A few puzzle pieces to keep track of here, but they do seem to me to link together nicely in one way or another.
Resonance phenomena occur with all types of vibrations or waves: there is mechanical resonance, acoustic resonance, electromagnetic resonance, nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR), electron spin resonance (ESR) and resonance of quantum wave functions. ….
In physics, resonance describes the phenomenon of increased amplitude that occurs when the frequency of a periodically applied force (or a Fourier component of it) is equal or close to a natural frequency of the system on which it acts. When an oscillating force is applied at a resonant frequency of a dynamical system, the system will oscillate at a higher amplitude than when the same force is applied at other, non-resonant frequencies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance

One of the most profound and mysterious principles in all of physics is the Born Rule, named after Max Born. In quantum mechanics, particles don’t have classical properties like “position” or “momentum”; rather, there is a wave function that assigns a (complex) number, called the “amplitude,” to each possible measurement outcome. The Born Rule is then very simple: it says that the probability of obtaining any possible measurement outcome is equal to the square of the corresponding amplitude.
http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/...ction-squared/

Resonance is used to reject all the radio signals except for the one you want to receive. Different parts in the radio resonate at the desired signal and block the others.
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-radio-use-resonance


The quantum field is a wavy place, full of wave functions on top of wave functions ad infinitum. All possible outcomes are there, yet we are only aware of some as ‘real’ during this life experience. Perhaps through tuning our consciousness we can filter out which outcomes we wish to experience from that infinity of possibilities via resonance. A particle is merely a representation within our consciousness of a locally high amplitude peak in the quantum field. The more we resonate with a frequency, the more its aptitude is heightened, and the square of that amplitude is equal to the probability that we will experience that outcome as the “real” one.

Once one has a resonant selection of waves filtered out from that field of all possibilities, one can use them to represent pretty much anything, any image, as real through a Fourier transformation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds0cmAV-Yek

Perhaps then, those things we experience as real, is a matter of how our individual consciousness is tuned and resonates in harmony with a portion of that infinity of vibrations with the quantum field. Our consciousness resonates with a select group of frequencies with the quantum field and ‘collapse of the wave’, is merely what we call it when those frequencies are filtered out from the rest and the remaining ones are blocked from our conscious awareness. Hence our one world is filtered out from the many and rendered via fourier into our imagination of reality.

What things are real? Perhaps those which we create within our own consciousness through our own tuning of that consciousness to resonate with certain frequencies within the quantum field, thereby increasing the amplitude and corresponding probability that those peaks will become real within our own conscious awareness. Perhaps we are not just the observers of the quantum field, our consciousness is a resonant amplifier of the parts we wish to imagine as real.

Resonance is a word with meaning, perhaps that with which we resonate, is a major factor in that which becomes reality for us.

Thanks.

Any ideas about how those descriptions might apply to the resonance between the frequency of the seeker and the frequency of the concept All is One to produce a profound feeling that ends the search?
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  #24  
Old 28-05-2020, 12:42 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
[quote=JustASimpleGuy]I'm sure Max will indulge my hypothesis. LOL!

By the way, the quantum unit is a Quantum of Action and not space/time or energy, and that does seem to be the first manifestation within objective reality (Maya). Think about that...

Quantum of Action... Path of Action (Karma) ... Good-good, bad-bad, and no one escapes the law. Whoso wears a form, wears the chain.
Sean Carroll posits Ultimate Reality is the quantum mechanical wave function. One quantum mechanical wave function that is the foundation of existence. Perhaps Maya is all the quantum of actions appearing in that one wave function? The Power of Brahman manifesting physical reality (Maya) and Orch OR is His backdoor to eavesdrop on the goings on within Maya? The mechanism behind the Eye of the eye, Mind of the mind, Consciousness of the consciousness if you will.
https://youtu.be/z5qtyOwsiEk?t=158
Brahman's a show off? LOL![/QUOTE


The director yells action when they want the filming to begin. The movie that is produced ends up being a series of discrete pictures, individual moments in time, that when strung together and showen sufficiently fast, produce the illusion of continuous action. Each of these still images on the film might be thought of as a quanta of that action the director has called for.

Action can be calculated by multiplying energy times time, or momentum times distance. Mass is energy, and I have mass, so even if I am just sitting still, over time, that is still action. Momentum is mass times velocity, so when I am moving over a distance, that is also action. I am progressing along that path of action, one quanta at a time, whether moving or standing still. Though it may seem continuous, it is in fact just a series of quanta of action, snap shots of present moments, strung together and played within my consciousness fast enough that I am no longer aware they are still shots, but become continuous in my mind.

I do not envision Karma as a law or set of chains, but more like a desire or maybe even a need to experience something to help one to know and understand it. For example if one is filled with hate, they may end up creating and experiencing an action of drama in which they act out their hatred to its fullest, or maybe instead someone acts out that same hatred upon them, and through that experience, they come to better understand what that hatred is and what it means. Our choices have consequences, and through experiencing those consequences we learn what those choices mean.

Perhaps Penrose and Hammeroff and microtubules and Orch OR are right, perhaps not. For some reason something about the microtubules hypothesis doesn’t sit right with me, but I can’t really explain why, perhaps that will change. Lots of interesting hypotheses out there. Still, I suppose at some level, our behavior, even if it be the behaviour of how my consciousness interacts with Mr. Carrol’s one yuuuuge superimposed quantum wave function to extract my reality is non-computable. If not, then my freewill is an illusion and I am always an effect and never a cause, and I just don’t like that idea. But for now, I still prefer to punt it up to Mr. Gödel and say it is a question I cannot fully resolve from within the life experience, maybe after or in between, but not while in the system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orches...tive_reduction

I am currently of the opinion that energy is just the term we give to the expression of information as it is used to render Maya within our own consciousness. The point I am making is not that “Brahman's a show off”, but that maybe, despite Albert’s misgivings, the moon really is not there when we are not looking. Yet, if we look back to see it a few hours later, it had better appear where it should be as if it had been moving through the sky behind our backs the whole time. Perhaps then, this continued existence in potential, even if not always expressed upon the screen, nevertheless taxes our computer and slows our perception of time. So somewhere, even though that mass may not be appearing on our screen in between, it’s trajectory must be computable, else we might realize that something is amiss in Maya and stop believing in our own drama.

Without that willing suspension of dis-belief, if we no longer feel and believe that these things are real, then we may awaken from the matrix. Maya is no longer effective, our experience of it in helping us understand our Karmas no longer works. Is this then what those who seek to awaken are seeking? For a while, as I explored the answer to this question of what is real, I started to fear that I may be ruining my experience of life for myself. But as I explored deeper and deeper I came to believe that there is nothing that can be called the one true “real” reality as opposed to those other illusions. Ok, perhaps it is Mr. Carrols quantum wave function, but that encompasses everything, so then everything becomes real again, and once again, I can believe that these things that make up my experience of life, are real.
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  #25  
Old 28-05-2020, 01:10 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
[quote=Iamit]Thanks.

Any ideas about how those descriptions might apply to the resonance between the frequency of the seeker and the frequency of the concept All is One to produce a profound feeling that ends the search?[/QUOTE


Hmmmmmmm? Maybe? But those descriptions are more about how the car works then about mapping out the road trip.

There appears to be an inherent contradiction in that which the seeker is seeking. In the experience of All is One, there is only one, there cannot be a seeker and that which is being sought. The seeker can hold the concept of all is one apart from itself and contemplate it, but cannot experience Oneness as a separate seeker. Perhaps then, such an experience lies not it seeking at all. But if one were to ask the seeker what was that experience of Oneness like, they must truthfully answer, I don't know, I was not there at the time, and so it remains a mystery to the separate I.

Perhaps then, the seeker does not seek to resonate with any one frequency, but just to allow the whole orchestra to vibrate within them until it all merges into one harmonious note, Om. Perhaps then, one must reverse the cart and the horse, one first ends the search, to produce the profound feeling.

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 1
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
The named is the mother of ten thousand things.
Ever desire-less, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.
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  #26  
Old 28-05-2020, 01:29 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
[quote=ketzer]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I'm sure Max will indulge my hypothesis. LOL!

By the way, the quantum unit is a Quantum of Action and not space/time or energy, and that does seem to be the first manifestation within objective reality (Maya). Think about that...

Quantum of Action... Path of Action (Karma) ... Good-good, bad-bad, and no one escapes the law. Whoso wears a form, wears the chain.
Sean Carroll posits Ultimate Reality is the quantum mechanical wave function. One quantum mechanical wave function that is the foundation of existence. Perhaps Maya is all the quantum of actions appearing in that one wave function? The Power of Brahman manifesting physical reality (Maya) and Orch OR is His backdoor to eavesdrop on the goings on within Maya? The mechanism behind the Eye of the eye, Mind of the mind, Consciousness of the consciousness if you will.
https://youtu.be/z5qtyOwsiEk?t=158
Brahman's a show off? LOL![/QUOTE
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

The director yells action when they want the filming to begin. The movie that is produced ends up being a series of discrete pictures, individual moments in time, that when strung together and showen sufficiently fast, produce the illusion of continuous action. Each of these still images on the film might be thought of as a quanta of that action the director has called for.

Action can be calculated by multiplying energy times time, or momentum times distance. Mass is energy, and I have mass, so even if I am just sitting still, over time, that is still action. Momentum is mass times velocity, so when I am moving over a distance, that is also action. I am progressing along that path of action, one quanta at a time, whether moving or standing still. Though it may seem continuous, it is in fact just a series of quanta of action, snap shots of present moments, strung together and played within my consciousness fast enough that I am no longer aware they are still shots, but become continuous in my mind.

I do not envision Karma as a law or set of chains, but more like a desire or maybe even a need to experience something to help one to know and understand it. For example if one is filled with hate, they may end up creating and experiencing an action of drama in which they act out their hatred to its fullest, or maybe instead someone acts out that same hatred upon them, and through that experience, they come to better understand what that hatred is and what it means. Our choices have consequences, and through experiencing those consequences we learn what those choices mean.

Perhaps Penrose and Hammeroff and microtubules and Orch OR are right, perhaps not. For some reason something about the microtubules hypothesis doesn’t sit right with me, but I can’t really explain why, perhaps that will change. Lots of interesting hypotheses out there. Still, I suppose at some level, our behavior, even if it be the behaviour of how my consciousness interacts with Mr. Carrol’s one yuuuuge superimposed quantum wave function to extract my reality is non-computable. If not, then my freewill is an illusion and I am always an effect and never a cause, and I just don’t like that idea. But for now, I still prefer to punt it up to Mr. Gödel and say it is a question I cannot fully resolve from within the life experience, maybe after or in between, but not while in the system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orches...tive_reduction

I am currently of the opinion that energy is just the term we give to the expression of information as it is used to render Maya within our own consciousness. The point I am making is not that “Brahman's a show off”, but that maybe, despite Albert’s misgivings, the moon really is not there when we are not looking. Yet, if we look back to see it a few hours later, it had better appear where it should be as if it had been moving through the sky behind our backs the whole time. Perhaps then, this continued existence in potential, even if not always expressed upon the screen, nevertheless taxes our computer and slows our perception of time. So somewhere, even though that mass may not be appearing on our screen in between, it’s trajectory must be computable, else we might realize that something is amiss in Maya and stop believing in our own drama.

Without that willing suspension of dis-belief, if we no longer feel and believe that these things are real, then we may awaken from the matrix. Maya is no longer effective, our experience of it in helping us understand our Karmas no longer works. Is this then what those who seek to awaken are seeking? For a while, as I explored the answer to this question of what is real, I started to fear that I may be ruining my experience of life for myself. But as I explored deeper and deeper I came to believe that there is nothing that can be called the one true “real” reality as opposed to those other illusions. Ok, perhaps it is Mr. Carrols quantum wave function, but that encompasses everything, so then everything becomes real again, and once again, I can believe that these things that make up my experience of life, are real.

What a paradox, eh? Another nice mess... LOL!

https://youtu.be/W3qcj2MzPYc

erg.sec, right?

At this point Orch OR is but an intriguing hypothesis and with much criticism from the scientific community.

In my journey I even consider the musings of people like Daniel Dennett and a whole host of material reductionists like Sean Carroll. I don't even think they are wrong, but just looking at one side of the coin.
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  #27  
Old 28-05-2020, 05:01 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
[b][indent][color="DarkRed"][quote=JustASimpleGuy][quote=ketzer]


What a paradox, eh? Another nice mess... LOL!

https://youtu.be/W3qcj2MzPYc

erg.sec, right?

At this point Orch OR is but an intriguing hypothesis and with much criticism from the scientific community.

In my journey I even consider the musings of people like Daniel Dennett and a whole host of material reductionists like Sean Carroll. I don't even think they are wrong, but just looking at one side of the coin.[/QUOTE

Paradox? Perhaps. It would seem I went to find what is real and ended up chasing my tail around in a circle until I bit it and found that it was indeed real, or at least felt that way. The only answer that works for me is that all is real in its own way. Sean Carroll is a favorite of mine. He is an unapologetic Everettian, and I am sort of as well, though I do have my apologetics. The mathematical wave function may be what is real, but for me, in the present moment, what seems real are those quantum field frequencies which resonate within the field of my consciousness, amplifying parts of it into my awareness and creating my experience of reality, the rest is blocked for the now. It is all real, but not all at the same time from my limited perspective. That is OK, my musical preferences are rather eclectic and change a lot with my mood. I don't need to listen to all Om radio all the time, I have a life to get on with.

Yes, erc.sec in one unit system.
Action can be expressed in terms of momentum over distance, or energy through time.
Unit-less as momentum times distance we get: Mass x Distance Squared / Time or (mass moving through spacetime). But since mass is a property of energy with mass = twice the energy divided by the square of the velocity. Put that all together, cancel out the common numerator and denominator terms, and we circle back to action being energy moving through time, same unitless dimensions for both expressions. Again, I suspect energy is just information expressed and tracked within consciousness, so we end up with information playing out, moving and changing, informing what is formed within, through space and time.

BTW: A while back I sent you a link to the spacetime vid on the Unruh effect and Rindler horizons and said you may find some hints there.

The Rindler horizon and accompanying Unruh radiation arises anytime the observer accelerates (changes in velocity - speed and/or direction) through spacetime, which includes acceleration in gravity (e.g. sitting still on the surface of the earth). This horizon actually cuts off access to certain frequencies in that yuuuuge quantum wave function which defines the quantum field. So you see the connections? The future that is real to me is the one I form within using information from the quantum field, information drawn out through allowing certain of its infinite variety of frequencies to resonate within my consciousness. If I accelerate, I am changing my trajectory, changing the path I was on as I move through spacetime, (my choice to travel a different path). Just like when I make a choice in my life, I end up closing the door on other possible choices, other potential futures, when I make a choice to change my trajectory through spacetime, even if I just decide to sit still a bit longer in the gravitational field of the earth, I am technically accelerating in gravity and creating a Rindler horizon, which is cutting off my access to certain frequencies in the quantum field. They are blocked by that Rindler horizon and can no longer resonate within my consciousness and now cannot be used to create future moments of my reality within.

The future that can be ‘realized’ for me in this life is steadily narrowing as I move through life on my ever changing trajectory through spacetime. So even when we choose not to decide we are still making a choice, still accelerating in the earth's gravity, and that choice is reflected by what quantum field frequencies end up blocked by that Rindler horizon that follows us about all through our lives. That horizon that chases us through life from the day we are born, constantly swallowing up what could have been, placing it behind a veil of what can no longer be realized in that lifetime. We all feel that horizon chasing us through life, it is just that at the beginning there is so much that is possible, it seems unlimited. Only when we get older do we notice that all that ‘could be’ is slipping away from us behind that horizon of what is now becoming more and more improbable to become realized in the time we have left. Then we become more aware that we have not realized all those dreams that seemed and were perhaps possible, and more probable when we were young. Change is constant, choice has consequences, and we live out the effects of those consequences through the experience of our lives.

All through our lives we are acting, all through our lives we are filtering and extracting the information from that quantum wave function with which we create (realize) our realities within, all through our lives we are accelerating, always changing our trajectories through spacetime, all though our lives we are generating Unruh radiation particles and communicating our choices and changes to the rest of the universe, and all through our lives we are generating Rindler horizons limiting our access to quantum field frequencies and limiting what could be realized within that lifetime, until at last we have limited them all, that horizon finally catches up to and overtakes us, and that lifetime is finished.

.
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  #28  
Old 29-05-2020, 08:59 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
 
[quote=ketzer]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Thanks.

Any ideas about how those descriptions might apply to the resonance between the frequency of the seeker and the frequency of the concept All is One to produce a profound feeling that ends the search?[/QUOTE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit

Hmmmmmmm? Maybe? But those descriptions are more about how the car works then about mapping out the road trip.

There appears to be an inherent contradiction in that which the seeker is seeking. In the experience of All is One, there is only one, there cannot be a seeker and that which is being sought. The seeker can hold the concept of all is one apart from itself and contemplate it, but cannot experience Oneness as a separate seeker. Perhaps then, such an experience lies not it seeking at all. But if one were to ask the seeker what was that experience of Oneness like, they must truthfully answer, I don't know, I was not there at the time, and so it remains a mystery to the separate I.

Perhaps then, the seeker does not seek to resonate with any one frequency, but just to allow the whole orchestra to vibrate within them until it all merges into one harmonious note, Om. Perhaps then, one must reverse the cart and the horse, one first ends the search, to produce the profound feeling.

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 1
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
The named is the mother of ten thousand things.
Ever desire-less, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.

Talking only about the maniestation of difference in which everything arises. There is nowhere else for anything to arise including the concept All is One. So I ask the question in that context only, in which there are seekers seeking.
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  #29  
Old 29-05-2020, 08:59 AM
Iamit Iamit is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: West Wales. u.k
Posts: 1,002
 
[quote=ketzer]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
Thanks.

Any ideas about how those descriptions might apply to the resonance between the frequency of the seeker and the frequency of the concept All is One to produce a profound feeling that ends the search?[/QUOTE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit

Hmmmmmmm? Maybe? But those descriptions are more about how the car works then about mapping out the road trip.

There appears to be an inherent contradiction in that which the seeker is seeking. In the experience of All is One, there is only one, there cannot be a seeker and that which is being sought. The seeker can hold the concept of all is one apart from itself and contemplate it, but cannot experience Oneness as a separate seeker. Perhaps then, such an experience lies not it seeking at all. But if one were to ask the seeker what was that experience of Oneness like, they must truthfully answer, I don't know, I was not there at the time, and so it remains a mystery to the separate I.

Perhaps then, the seeker does not seek to resonate with any one frequency, but just to allow the whole orchestra to vibrate within them until it all merges into one harmonious note, Om. Perhaps then, one must reverse the cart and the horse, one first ends the search, to produce the profound feeling.

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 1
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
The named is the mother of ten thousand things.
Ever desire-less, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.

Talking only about the maniestation of difference in which everything arises. There is nowhere else for anything to arise including the concept All is One. So I ask the question in that context only, in which there are seekers seeking.
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  #30  
Old 29-05-2020, 01:09 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
[color="DarkRed"][b][indent]

Talking only about the maniestation of difference in which everything arises. There is nowhere else for anything to arise including the concept All is One. So I ask the question in that context only, in which there are seekers seeking.

Yes, and this is where the contradiction would seem to arise. In the full experience of all being one or oneness, there is nothing else to seek as there is full awareness that all is already within.

However, perhaps all is not lost while one is in the experience of duality. There is a state of mind that I manifest in which I have some level of realization that “all is one”, and that “all is me”. I think of it as a state of Samadi, but I hesitate to say that as I fear using that word will trigger a wave of objections from my orthodox buddhist friends. Jumping over the arguments about what that word really means, to me it is a state of mind where I am aware that everything in my experience is really my own consciousness, and everything is perfect just as it is. It is as if I am looking into a mirror in which everything in it is my own reflection. The word Samadi is sort of a hypnotic trigger word for me that allows me to enter this state. In this state, nothing needs judging, nothing needs to be understood, nothing needs doing, everything is perfect just as it is and everything can just be. I am in that present moment, and not seeking anything. I detach from the world and just watch the cars go by without really thinking about any of it, just sitting in a quiet state of mind and allowing it all to permeate and reverberate through my awareness. It is a wonderful and peaceful and restful state of mind, perhaps some would call it blissful.

"What I like best in the whole world is Me and Piglet going to see You, and You saying 'What about a little something?' and Me saying, 'Well, I shouldn't mind a little something, should you, Piglet,' and it being a hummy sort of day outside, and birds singing."
"I like that too," said Christopher Robin, "but what I like doing best is Nothing.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner


I spend the majority of my time immersed in the river of life, navigating rapids, swimming against the currents, trying to avoid being drowned. This state of mind is sort of like climbing out of the river and up to the top of a high bank and just watching the river go by and marveling at the whole thing, realizing that I am in fact creating the whole thing, the entire landscape, including the river, is made up of me.

I don’t know if there is any way for me to tell you how to get into a similar state. I have found that certain elements are important. One must accept that everything is perfect as it is, even the perceived imperfections are in fact perfect and necessary in the present moment of awareness. Nothing needs to be or should be judged, everything is just to be experienced directly. Put the gavel aside for the time being and just be content with being. Realize that though one may be drawing information from the quantum wave function to create this reality, one is using that information to manifest every thing one is experiencing within themselves. It is all really one's own reality composed of one’s own consciousness, a world of pure imagination. I suppose all three of those require a certain amount of faith, as although I believe science can point to them, it does not prove them, and may never have that power. I have a faith that the quantum wave function resides within the greater mind of God, wherein also lies the only true realized state of all as one. The individual I, as an individual, cannot hold such an awareness as in that individualized state it is only a part of that all. Yet perhaps it can surrender itself into that realization that it is not truly separate, stop seeking and just immerse itself in the realization that all is God, I am within God, everything I create is therefore also being created by God, all of it is real and all of it is perfect just as it is.

“By the time it came to the edge of the Forest, the stream had grown up, so that it was almost a river, and, being grown-up, it did not run and jump and sparkle along as it used to do when it was younger, but moved more slowly. For it knew now where it was going, and it said to itself, “There is no hurry. We shall get there some day.” But all the little streams higher up in the Forest went this way and that, quickly, eagerly, having so much to find out before it was too late.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner


I don’t expect that such a state of mind is the fully realized experience of “All is One” you are seeking, but it is nevertheless a good stand in, and anyway, I like it. Inevitably, someone or something comes along and bounces me back into the river and on I go with my ride through the rapids and currents of life. Perhaps the one advantage of this state of mind I have described is that I can, even in my battles with the currents, remember that this state of mind is there and I can get back to it with a single word.

“How did you fall in, Eeyore?" asked Rabbit, as he dried him with Piglet's handkerchief.
"I didn't," said Eeyore.
"But how--"
"I was BOUNCED," said Eeyore.
"Oo," said Roo excitedly, "did somebody push you?"
"Somebody BOUNCED me. I was just thinking by the side of the river--thinking, if any of you know what that means--when I received a loud BOUNCE."
"Oh, Eeyore!" said everybody.
"Are you sure you didn't slip?" asked Rabbit wisely.
"Of course I slipped. If you're standing on the slippery bank of a river, and somebody BOUNCES you loudly from behind, you slip. What did you think I did?”
….
“I didn't bounce, I coughed," said Tigger crossly.
"Bouncy or coffy, it's all the same at the bottom of the river.”
― A.A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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