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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #21  
Old 12-11-2017, 09:08 AM
Eelco
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May I ask why you made the change in sects?
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:04 AM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
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Mainly because I do not believe enlightenment in this lifetime is possible for many people at all, in my opinion you're probably more likely to win the lottery than to become enlightened. Keeping precepts and practicing meditation became more like a chore than an enjoyment. As a lay follower of buddhism, with a living to make and a family to feed, as much as I respected the lofty ideals of the sangha I also realised the reality that sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do. Japanese pureland, with their married clergy and more relaxed approach to upholding the precepts appealed to me.
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2017, 03:30 PM
Eelco
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Ah I can relate, being married and having 6 children Keeping a practice is a chore sometimes.
Still I hope liberation is possible for lay people.
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2017, 11:01 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunc
Sila is the main training of buddhism and most other religions for that matter. Buddhism has no monopoly on meditation, the European neo nazi that killed all of the children on a school camp actually meditated before committing that atrocity. It would have been far better of course if he'd only practiced some sila from anyone of numerous religions.
Shaun.

Hi Shaun

Perhaps you would like to reflect on the term meditation. People use this term very freely - it can include visualization e.g. of a blue ball glowing in your presence, it can refer to imagining rays of life penetrating the body, it can refer to imagining an island of peace, or it can just refer to 'modern day mindfulness' where people try to focus on one thing at a time more diligently.

However, Buddhist meditation is strictly specific in its application and teaching. It's as far as I am aware, the combination of samadhi (samatha) and vipassana in Theravadan Buddhism. It is the light of Awareness in Dzogchen and it is satori/sitting in Zen. All these share the commonality of Buddhist practice, from my understanding, which aims to penetrate into the human mind and equalize/penetrate one's individual karma, such that a genuine inner momentum is started, and ultimately, so that the old karmic patterns and ultimately the false self is transcended.

Buddhist meditation (and I will put aside Pure Land/Nicheren for now which is very specific in its cultural context) does not dabble in or teach imagery or visualization, it does not encourage volitional thinking, and it would never involve pre-meditation to murder.

In other words, when people use the word meditation, perhaps people can recognize that it is used very generally and Buddhist meditation as taught by Buddhist teachers/Masters is also quite specific (in order to realize the ultimate goals of Buddhist practices)

The Eightfold Path comes in a package, as you said and virtue is its basic underpinning. This is for two reasons:

a) A moral character has a steadier mind - a boat which is not rocking back and forth ultimately achieves a steadier state of samadhi. An immoral mind run rampant is not a reliable leg of the tripod.
b) Buddhism is effectively not existant without the wings of compassion and wisdom - whether it is the Bodhisattva vows of "all sentient beings" or the Theravada principles of compassion and Buddha - if one is involved in evil thoughts then obviously it is against the founding principles and underlying Light that is embedded in Gautama's teaching

Thanks for your attention

BT
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  #25  
Old 12-11-2017, 11:05 PM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunc
Mainly because I do not believe enlightenment in this lifetime is possible for many people at all, in my opinion you're probably more likely to win the lottery than to become enlightened.

I first met Ajahn Sumedho at the Centre for Higher Tibetan Studies in Switzerland in the spring of 1979. He had just finished giving a ten-day course in the mountains near Berne, and was invited to spend a couple of days at the Centre by its Abbot, Geshe Rabten.

One person who attended Bhikkhu Sumedho's course liked to be around him because 'he is just such a nice guy'. It was heartening for me to see a monk who kept strictly the rules of discipline, the Vinaya, yet maintained a softness and naturalness behind his observance of them.

To illustrate Sumedho's resoluteness about the importance of practice and meditation: While we were both walking around the hillside near the Centre, overlooking the French and Swiss Alps with Lake Geneva below, he asked me whether I had a desire to return to India. I answered that I would go if it were for the purpose of improving my Tibetan. I could then return to the West and act as an interpreter for a Tibetan master or work as a translator of Tibetan texts. His only response to that was: 'Why don't you just get enlightened?'

https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/A...nterviewed.htm

https://www.amaravati.org/audio/nibbana-isnt-far-away/
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  #26  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:46 AM
Eelco
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The more I study the tripitaka and theravadan buddhism, or the Thai forest tradition.
It dawns on me that buddhism across the various sects are as different as night and day.
Even though some of the language matches. the premisses, the belief system and the ultimate goal attainable in a mans lifetime differ so dramatically that in my current view it seems madness to gather them all under the buddhism umbrella.
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  #27  
Old 29-11-2017, 05:39 AM
Shaunc Shaunc is offline
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Hi Catsquotl. The buddha himself taught that there are 84,000 different paths to enlightenment. Most if not all of the major religions are the same. The Mormons and the Catholics in Christianity for example, god knows how many Hindu sects there are and don't forget that at one period of time buddhism itself was considered just another hindu sect in much the same way that the teachings of Jesus were considered as just another form of Judaism.
As the teachings of Lord buddha spread throughout the world the teachings were often slightly changed to suit the local area. Catholicism is much the same. There's a huge difference between the Catholicism of Ireland and the Catholicism of the Philippine islands.
Good luck and best wishes.
Shaun.
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  #28  
Old 29-11-2017, 05:54 AM
blossomingtree blossomingtree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catsquotl
The more I study the tripitaka and theravadan buddhism, or the Thai forest tradition.
It dawns on me that buddhism across the various sects are as different as night and day.
Even though some of the language matches. the premisses, the belief system and the ultimate goal attainable in a mans lifetime differ so dramatically that in my current view it seems madness to gather them all under the buddhism umbrella.

Hi catsquotl

At core they are exactly the same but utilize slightly different language, context and traditions to lead the aspirant the same way. It's best not to dib and dab and work through one tradition for that very reason.

BT
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  #29  
Old 29-11-2017, 12:14 PM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunc
Hi Catsquotl. The buddha himself taught that there are 84,000 different paths to enlightenment. Most if not all of the major religions are the same. The Mormons and the Catholics in Christianity for example, god knows how many Hindu sects there are and don't forget that at one period of time buddhism itself was considered just another hindu sect in much the same way that the teachings of Jesus were considered as just another form of Judaism.
As the teachings of Lord buddha spread throughout the world the teachings were often slightly changed to suit the local area. Catholicism is much the same. There's a huge difference between the Catholicism of Ireland and the Catholicism of the Philippine islands.
Good luck and best wishes.
Shaun.

I like Sam Harris's view on religion, because he said there are many different ones, and that leaves us with two possibilities: either only one of them is right or none of them are. teehee.

(I think it was Harris, not so sure)
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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  #30  
Old 29-11-2017, 10:39 PM
Eelco
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If Buddhism was a religion then sure, I wouldn't care if there were heaps of sects and quarrels etc..
I hoped when diving into Buddhism I would learn what Guatama the Buddha taught.

Reading translations of what is considered the earliest writings of the words of the buddha. The Pali tripitaka. I can't help but think there aren't that many buddhists around.

I can't find where he said that there are 84.000 different ways to enlightenment.
I can find where he mentions One 8-fold path out of suffering.

It appears The Buddha or the people who continued the Sanga after his death may have left step by step instructions on how exactly to do this.

With Love
Eelco
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