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  #1  
Old 01-08-2016, 01:51 PM
sky sky is offline
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True Self.

If you ask most Buddhists whether there is any doctrine of a soul or eternal Self within the teachings of the Buddha, they will reply with a very definite "no!"

And yet a closer study of Mahayana Buddhism (one of the two main divisions of Buddhism) reveals that this is quite simply inaccurate. The Buddha teaches both the non-Self and the Self. Let us look at these two facets of his "Dharma" (Truth).

The misunderstanding by most Buddhists arises from the fact that the Buddha usually places the greatest emphasis on what is NOT the Soul or Self. Thus, the physical body, feelings, thoughts, impulses, and ordinary consciousness are labelled as "non-Self" or "non-Soul" (anatman). These elements of our worldly being are impermanent and subject to change and dissolution, so cannot sensibly be deemed our Soul. They make up our "mundane self", and that mundane self is dismissed as "a lie" by the Buddha. This fictitious worldly self or ego has no enduring reality - it is a constantly mutating stream of reincarnating desires which never find lasting satisfaction. Our worldly self is one big and painful illusion.

Most Buddhists stop here and preach this as the highest truth about selfhood. This, however, is only half the story. In the final phase of his teaching career, the Buddha revealed that there exists within each sentient being an innermost essence, which knows of no change and no death. He called this "the True Self" or "True Soul" (satya-atman). He also termed it the Buddha-Dhatu - the "Buddha-Principle" - or the tathagata-garbha, the "embryonic Buddha" latent within us.

In his last sutra (scripture), the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra, as well as in other sutras of a similar nature, he tells of how this Self is within all beings, but unknown to them, like some cache of hidden treasure. He says of this Self:

It is not true to say that all phenomena are devoid of a Self. The Self is Reality (tattva), the Self is eternal (nitya), the Self is virtue (guna), the Self is everlasting (sasvata), the Self is stable (dhruva), the Self is peace (Tibetan version of the Mahaparinirvana Sutra).

These qualities of our True Self are diametrically opposed to what we normally think of as "ourselves". Our worldly self is not truly real, as it is always changing into something else - it can never just "be"; the True Self, by contrast, is ultimate, unchanging Reality. It is immovable, unshakeable (dhruva) and full of peace. Moreover, it endures forever. No death can touch it, no harm can befall it, no unhappiness can blight it. It is as indestructible and radiant as a diamond. It is what the Buddha terms the realm of Nirvana - highest and everlasting happiness.

It is absolutely vital, however, that we should not mistake our worldly self, our ego, for this True Self, which lies buried beneath all our emotional and mental "defilements" (such as desire, hatred and spiritual delusion). In no way must we think that we can understand our Soul by thought and reasoning alone. It is, in fact, "unthinkable" (acintya). It can only be contacted and "seen" when we have cleared away all the obscuring thoughts and emotions which screen it from our view. Only through the cultivation of a moral lifestyle (e.g. avoiding killing, avoiding lying, avoiding stealing, avoiding the eating of meat) and through the practice of meditation can we clear away the nasty clutter of our minds and see the Self, which the Buddha says is "radiantly shining". Our task then is to lead all other beings to this inner realm of Nirvana, enshrined within each being's Soul.

If you are one of the vast majority of Mahayana Buddhists who have not been exposed to these teachings, you might feel quite shocked. You may even dismiss these doctrines as un-Buddhistic. And yet it would be a mistake to do so. The Buddha, in some of his most deep-reaching sutras - such as the Tathagata-garbha Sutra, the Srimaladevi Sutra, the Surangama Sutra, and the Mahaparinirvana Sutra (amongst others) - insists that this teaching of the "Buddha-Principle" within all beings is ultimate Truth and must not be rejected. To dwell in one's thoughts and meditation only on what is NOT the Soul, and to teach others only that, and to fail to cultivate the notion of the reality of the True Soul, is to unbalance the Buddhist doctrine and lead people into error. The Buddha says in no uncertain terms in his last sutra, the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra:

"Those who abandon the teaching given in this sutra concerning the tathagata-garbha [i.e. the Buddha-Essence in beings or True Self] are just like cattle. For example, just as people who intend to commit suicide will cause themselves extreme misery, similarly you should know that those ungrateful people who reject the tathagata-garbha and teach non-Self cause themselves extreme misery."

So, respecting and following the final teachings of the Buddha on the True Self is extremely important. It would be an unwise Mahayana Buddhist who dismissed these doctrines out of hand or tried to minimise them as "tame Buddhism" for those of a less robust spiritual disposition! The teaching of the eternal Buddhic Principle within us, which when once glimpsed transforms us into a Buddha, is declared by the Buddha to be the "absolutely final culmination" of his Doctrine.
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2016, 01:53 PM
sky sky is offline
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True Self.

I found this interesting article over the weekend, some might enjoy it....or not
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  #3  
Old 06-08-2016, 11:44 PM
Turiya Turiya is offline
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Not sure if that is your writing or someone else's who you are quoting, either way here are my observations.

We can emphasize the extinguished self, no self, the blown-out condition which we can intuit and feel at times as Reality (the true condition) or we can emphasize the Self as Transcendental Being, prior to birth and eternally alive after the death of any present body mind.

Not the one who wakes, dreams or sleeps. The former is the tendency of primary Buddhism and the latter is very much Advaita Vedanta and modern and ancient non-dual schools. I tend to this school and emphasis myself but can appreciate the truth and motive in the blown-out or selfless 'state'. Surely if we are all fundamentally the same, the two aspects can be seen as part of the human process and given credibility by all.
Quote:
It is absolutely vital, however, that we should not mistake our worldly self, our ego, for this True Self, which lies buried beneath all our emotional and mental "defilements" (such as desire, hatred and spiritual delusion). In no way must we think that we can understand our Soul by thought and reasoning alone. It is, in fact, "unthinkable" (acintya). It can only be contacted and "seen" when we have cleared away all the obscuring thoughts and emotions which screen it from our view. Only through the cultivation of a moral lifestyle (e.g. avoiding killing, avoiding lying, avoiding stealing, avoiding the eating of meat) and through the practice of meditation can we clear away the nasty clutter of our minds and see the Self, which the Buddha says is "radiantly shining". Our task then is to lead all other beings to this inner realm of Nirvana, enshrined within each being's Soul.

These points raised in the above quote, move us apart in agreement to some degree. Moral action though utterly necessary (in my opinion) does not impact or obscure the True Nature. The True Nature or Self shines regardless of our states of mind or emotion ( or even action). That's it's Immanent, Radical or Directly available rather than progressively and only self-purifyingly available nature.
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  #4  
Old 07-08-2016, 12:48 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Rianna had a hit song that speaks of the "shining"

Others have recreated "her" song and made it their own, all the while shining too and with real stories too, that have brought it to life for it's own reason/purpose of being.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...0174&FORM=VIRE
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“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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  #5  
Old 07-08-2016, 02:42 AM
Turiya Turiya is offline
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"shining" : Yes, that always draws the heart's rapt attention.
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  #6  
Old 07-08-2016, 05:39 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
If you ask most Buddhists whether there is any doctrine of a soul or eternal Self within the teachings of the Buddha, they will reply with a very definite "no!"

And yet a closer study of Mahayana Buddhism (one of the two main divisions of Buddhism) reveals that this is quite simply inaccurate. The Buddha teaches both the non-Self and the Self. Let us look at these two facets of his "Dharma" (Truth).

The misunderstanding by most Buddhists arises from the fact that the Buddha usually places the greatest emphasis on what is NOT the Soul or Self. Thus, the physical body, feelings, thoughts, impulses, and ordinary consciousness are labelled as "non-Self" or "non-Soul" (anatman). These elements of our worldly being are impermanent and subject to change and dissolution, so cannot sensibly be deemed our Soul. They make up our "mundane self", and that mundane self is dismissed as "a lie" by the Buddha. This fictitious worldly self or ego has no enduring reality - it is a constantly mutating stream of reincarnating desires which never find lasting satisfaction. Our worldly self is one big and painful illusion.

Most Buddhists stop here and preach this as the highest truth about selfhood. This, however, is only half the story. In the final phase of his teaching career, the Buddha revealed that there exists within each sentient being an innermost essence, which knows of no change and no death. He called this "the True Self" or "True Soul" (satya-atman). He also termed it the Buddha-Dhatu - the "Buddha-Principle" - or the tathagata-garbha, the "embryonic Buddha" latent within us.

In his last sutra (scripture), the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra, as well as in other sutras of a similar nature, he tells of how this Self is within all beings, but unknown to them, like some cache of hidden treasure. He says of this Self:

It is not true to say that all phenomena are devoid of a Self. The Self is Reality (tattva), the Self is eternal (nitya), the Self is virtue (guna), the Self is everlasting (sasvata), the Self is stable (dhruva), the Self is peace (Tibetan version of the Mahaparinirvana Sutra).

These qualities of our True Self are diametrically opposed to what we normally think of as "ourselves". Our worldly self is not truly real, as it is always changing into something else - it can never just "be"; the True Self, by contrast, is ultimate, unchanging Reality. It is immovable, unshakeable (dhruva) and full of peace. Moreover, it endures forever. No death can touch it, no harm can befall it, no unhappiness can blight it. It is as indestructible and radiant as a diamond. It is what the Buddha terms the realm of Nirvana - highest and everlasting happiness.

It is absolutely vital, however, that we should not mistake our worldly self, our ego, for this True Self, which lies buried beneath all our emotional and mental "defilements" (such as desire, hatred and spiritual delusion). In no way must we think that we can understand our Soul by thought and reasoning alone. It is, in fact, "unthinkable" (acintya). It can only be contacted and "seen" when we have cleared away all the obscuring thoughts and emotions which screen it from our view. Only through the cultivation of a moral lifestyle (e.g. avoiding killing, avoiding lying, avoiding stealing, avoiding the eating of meat) and through the practice of meditation can we clear away the nasty clutter of our minds and see the Self, which the Buddha says is "radiantly shining". Our task then is to lead all other beings to this inner realm of Nirvana, enshrined within each being's Soul.

If you are one of the vast majority of Mahayana Buddhists who have not been exposed to these teachings, you might feel quite shocked. You may even dismiss these doctrines as un-Buddhistic. And yet it would be a mistake to do so. The Buddha, in some of his most deep-reaching sutras - such as the Tathagata-garbha Sutra, the Srimaladevi Sutra, the Surangama Sutra, and the Mahaparinirvana Sutra (amongst others) - insists that this teaching of the "Buddha-Principle" within all beings is ultimate Truth and must not be rejected. To dwell in one's thoughts and meditation only on what is NOT the Soul, and to teach others only that, and to fail to cultivate the notion of the reality of the True Soul, is to unbalance the Buddhist doctrine and lead people into error. The Buddha says in no uncertain terms in his last sutra, the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra:

"Those who abandon the teaching given in this sutra concerning the tathagata-garbha [i.e. the Buddha-Essence in beings or True Self] are just like cattle. For example, just as people who intend to commit suicide will cause themselves extreme misery, similarly you should know that those ungrateful people who reject the tathagata-garbha and teach non-Self cause themselves extreme misery."

So, respecting and following the final teachings of the Buddha on the True Self is extremely important. It would be an unwise Mahayana Buddhist who dismissed these doctrines out of hand or tried to minimise them as "tame Buddhism" for those of a less robust spiritual disposition! The teaching of the eternal Buddhic Principle within us, which when once glimpsed transforms us into a Buddha, is declared by the Buddha to be the "absolutely final culmination" of his Doctrine.

Well said. Just excellent. And I think the 'true self' (as it is referred to) is actually reflected in the very first tenets of taking refuge in the Buddha, as the enlightenment within yourself.
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2016, 05:40 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesflow
Rianna had a hit song that speaks of the "shining"

Others have recreated "her" song and made it their own, all the while shining too and with real stories too, that have brought it to life for it's own reason/purpose of being.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...0174&FORM=VIRE

I liked. She's got that groove.
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Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
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  #8  
Old 07-08-2016, 06:53 AM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
If you ask most Buddhists whether there is any doctrine of a soul or eternal Self within the teachings of the Buddha, they will reply with a very definite "no!"

And yet a closer study of Mahayana Buddhism (one of the two main divisions of Buddhism) reveals that this is quite simply inaccurate. The Buddha teaches both the non-Self and the Self. Let us look at these two facets of his "Dharma" (Truth).

The misunderstanding by most Buddhists arises from the fact that the Buddha usually places the greatest emphasis on what is NOT the Soul or Self. Thus, the physical body, feelings, thoughts, impulses, and ordinary consciousness are labelled as "non-Self" or "non-Soul" (anatman). These elements of our worldly being are impermanent and subject to change and dissolution, so cannot sensibly be deemed our Soul. They make up our "mundane self", and that mundane self is dismissed as "a lie" by the Buddha. This fictitious worldly self or ego has no enduring reality - it is a constantly mutating stream of reincarnating desires which never find lasting satisfaction. Our worldly self is one big and painful illusion.

Most Buddhists stop here and preach this as the highest truth about selfhood. This, however, is only half the story. In the final phase of his teaching career, the Buddha revealed that there exists within each sentient being an innermost essence, which knows of no change and no death. He called this "the True Self" or "True Soul" (satya-atman). He also termed it the Buddha-Dhatu - the "Buddha-Principle" - or the tathagata-garbha, the "embryonic Buddha" latent within us.

In his last sutra (scripture), the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra, as well as in other sutras of a similar nature, he tells of how this Self is within all beings, but unknown to them, like some cache of hidden treasure. He says of this Self:

It is not true to say that all phenomena are devoid of a Self. The Self is Reality (tattva), the Self is eternal (nitya), the Self is virtue (guna), the Self is everlasting (sasvata), the Self is stable (dhruva), the Self is peace (Tibetan version of the Mahaparinirvana Sutra).

These qualities of our True Self are diametrically opposed to what we normally think of as "ourselves". Our worldly self is not truly real, as it is always changing into something else - it can never just "be"; the True Self, by contrast, is ultimate, unchanging Reality. It is immovable, unshakeable (dhruva) and full of peace. Moreover, it endures forever. No death can touch it, no harm can befall it, no unhappiness can blight it. It is as indestructible and radiant as a diamond. It is what the Buddha terms the realm of Nirvana - highest and everlasting happiness.

It is absolutely vital, however, that we should not mistake our worldly self, our ego, for this True Self, which lies buried beneath all our emotional and mental "defilements" (such as desire, hatred and spiritual delusion). In no way must we think that we can understand our Soul by thought and reasoning alone. It is, in fact, "unthinkable" (acintya). It can only be contacted and "seen" when we have cleared away all the obscuring thoughts and emotions which screen it from our view. Only through the cultivation of a moral lifestyle (e.g. avoiding killing, avoiding lying, avoiding stealing, avoiding the eating of meat) and through the practice of meditation can we clear away the nasty clutter of our minds and see the Self, which the Buddha says is "radiantly shining". Our task then is to lead all other beings to this inner realm of Nirvana, enshrined within each being's Soul.

If you are one of the vast majority of Mahayana Buddhists who have not been exposed to these teachings, you might feel quite shocked. You may even dismiss these doctrines as un-Buddhistic. And yet it would be a mistake to do so. The Buddha, in some of his most deep-reaching sutras - such as the Tathagata-garbha Sutra, the Srimaladevi Sutra, the Surangama Sutra, and the Mahaparinirvana Sutra (amongst others) - insists that this teaching of the "Buddha-Principle" within all beings is ultimate Truth and must not be rejected. To dwell in one's thoughts and meditation only on what is NOT the Soul, and to teach others only that, and to fail to cultivate the notion of the reality of the True Soul, is to unbalance the Buddhist doctrine and lead people into error. The Buddha says in no uncertain terms in his last sutra, the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra:

"Those who abandon the teaching given in this sutra concerning the tathagata-garbha [i.e. the Buddha-Essence in beings or True Self] are just like cattle. For example, just as people who intend to commit suicide will cause themselves extreme misery, similarly you should know that those ungrateful people who reject the tathagata-garbha and teach non-Self cause themselves extreme misery."

So, respecting and following the final teachings of the Buddha on the True Self is extremely important. It would be an unwise Mahayana Buddhist who dismissed these doctrines out of hand or tried to minimise them as "tame Buddhism" for those of a less robust spiritual disposition! The teaching of the eternal Buddhic Principle within us, which when once glimpsed transforms us into a Buddha, is declared by the Buddha to be the "absolutely final culmination" of his Doctrine.

Sky,

The true self is the soul of a person. He is in spiritual physical matter seldom leave the human body.

Once my soul stood up while I was sitting my soul show with the same feeling as me. I punched my soul and the same part of my human body was feeling pain. That proof the same true self of me.
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2016, 07:55 AM
sky sky is offline
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True self.

Is the ' True self ' not Buddha Nature Jeremy ?
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2016, 11:48 AM
naturesflow naturesflow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
I liked. She's got that groove.

Yeah I recall when she auditioned and thought the same thing.
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“God’s one and only voice are Silence.” ~ Herman Melville

Man has learned how to challenge both Nature and art to become the incitements to vice! His very cups he has delighted to engrave with libidinous subjects, and he takes pleasure in drinking from vessels of obscene form! Pliny the Elder
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