The Ultimate Truth

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Yet here we are immersed in waking, dreaming and deep sleep every single day, no practice required. These are natural states of our embodied existence.

Practice helps to understand these states and discover the underlying truth of our existence.

By the way, the Neo-Advaita approach is practice as it is in fact Jnana Yoga which is a practice, albeit in Neo-Advaita it's greatly watered down.

There's the one extreme of Old School Advaita Vedanta where a student wouldn't be instructed in the core of the teachings of self inquiry until achieving a sattvic mind, and that generally took a decade or so of practices to purify and clarify mind.

Then there's Neo-Advaita which basically dismisses the depth and strength of all the genetic, biological and experiential conditioning of mind and posits it can all be overcome by simply hearing the truth and doing a little bit of self inquiry, bypassing all the preliminary work.

The problem with the Old School approach is it's very exclusive and only realistic to those who decide to take up a monastic life.

The problem with the Neo-Advaita approach is it's massively more likely the awakening is simply an appropriation by the ego self.

If that last bit disturbs you I suggest perhaps more work (practice) is required. If not then perhaps you are there.

Let me first say that I fully respect that your beliefs work for you. but not for all.

Resonance is more mysterious and bypasses, and is unconcerned with the states you mention because resonance operates on the level of vibration/frequencies which match. The problem is that most seekers seem to be limited by conditioning that truth must be known and/or practise undertaken, both of which severely limit the ability to freely/openly resonate unfettered by such conditions.

Neo Advaita varies. Some may have the definition you refer to, although I am unaware of the teachers who support that view. Most however support the view that there is nothing required.

The other drawbacks you mention yet again miss the point that they are already Oneness manifesting as those drawbacks, so are not drawbacks at all in terms of total connection to Oneness. As usual you exclude the things you dont like as not Oneness manifest, which is always how you come to have problematic stuff to eliminate by practise. But the solution is of course not to exclude those things in the first place, and by so doing fully acknowledge them as already Oneness manifest, and the problem disappears.

As far as needing more work is concerned, there is no destination to get to. There is already no distance whatsoever between seeker and sought so no increase in connection to Oneness can be achieved by moving from one state to another through practise. Oneness is already fully all states, before and after any so called spiritual progress. This is always what is forgotten. The following story emphasises the point:-

"A Plgrim travelled to the Temple and stood before Shiva. The Warden came and said "It is our tradition not to point our feet towards Shiva". "Certainly Sir" said the Pilgrim "If you will point to where Shiva is not". So it is that you cannot point to anything regarded as problematic, that you feel needs practising away, that is not already Oneness.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

Path any, what matters is the actual unwavering direct realisation, rather than the mental contemplation.

***

Originally Posted by Iamit

Let me first say that I fully respect that your beliefs work for you. but not for all.

Resonance is more mysterious and bypasses, and is unconcerned with the states you mention because resonance operates on the level of vibration/frequencies which match. The problem is that most seekers seem to be limited by conditioning that truth must be known and/or practise undertaken, both of which severely limit the ability to freely/openly resonate unfettered by such conditions.

Neo Advaita varies. Some may have the definition you refer to, although I am unaware of the teachers who support that view. Most however support the view that there is nothing required.

The other drawbacks you mention yet again miss the point that they are already Oneness manifesting as those drawbacks, so are not drawbacks at all in terms of total connection to Oneness. As usual you exclude the things you dont like as not Oneness manifest, which is always how you come to have problematic stuff to eliminate by practise. But the solution is of course not to exclude those things in the first place, and by so doing fully acknowledge them as already Oneness manifest, and the problem disappears.

As far as needing more work is concerned, there is no destination to get to. There is already no distance whatsoever between seeker and sought so no increase in connection to Oneness can be achieved, Oneness is already fully the states before and after. any so called spiritual progress. This is always what is forgotten. The following story emphasises the point:-

"A Plgrim travelled to the Temple and stood before Shiva. The Warden came and said "It is our tradition not to point our feet towards Shiva". "Certainly Sir" said the Pilgrim "If you will point to where Shiva is not". So it is that you cannot point to anything regarded as problematic, that you feel needs practising away, that is not already Oneness.

1 - How does Neo-Advaita address those seekers severely limited by conditioning?

2 - If there is already no distance whatsoever between seeker and sought and Oneness is already fully the state before and after then what's the need for Neo-Advaita? Isn't it just as meaningless as Advaita Vedanta and Neo-Vednata?

Do you see those two points you expressed are in direct contradiction? That is either everyone is a realized Buddha or Jesus or there is work to be done.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

Path any, what matters is the actual unwavering direct realisation, rather than the mental contemplation.

***

Agreed, but there is some path that is walked and it requires desire, determination and work (practice).

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Agreed, but there is some path that is walked and it requires desire, determination and work (practice).

***

No doubt.

***

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Yet here we are immersed in waking, dreaming and deep sleep every single day, no practice required. These are natural states of our embodied existence.

Practice helps to understand these states and discover the underlying truth of our existence.

By the way, the Neo-Advaita approach is practice as it is in fact Jnana Yoga which is a practice, albeit in Neo-Advaita it's greatly watered down.

There's the one extreme of Old School Advaita Vedanta where a student wouldn't be instructed in the core of the teachings of self inquiry until achieving a sattvic mind, and that generally took a decade or so of practices to purify and clarify mind.

Then there's Neo-Advaita which basically dismisses the depth and strength of all the genetic, biological and experiential conditioning of mind and posits it can all be overcome by simply hearing the truth and doing a little bit of self inquiry, bypassing all the preliminary work.

The problem with the Old School approach is it's very exclusive and only realistic to those who decide to take up a monastic life.

The problem with the Neo-Advaita approach is it's massively more likely the awakening is simply an appropriation by the ego self.

If that last bit disturbs you I suggest perhaps more work (practice) is required. If not then perhaps you are there.

Let me first say that I fully respect that your beliefs work for you. but not for all.

Resonance is unconcerned with the states you mention because resonance operates on the level of vibration/frequencies which match to end the search. The problem is that most seekers seem to be limited by conditioning that truth must be known and/or practise undertaken, both of which severely limit the ability to freely/openly resonate unfettered by such conditions. The following story emphasises the point:-

"A Pilgrim travelled to the Temple and pointed his feet towards Shiva. The Warden came and said "It is our tradition not to point our feet towards Shiva". The Pilgrim said "Certainly Sir, if you will point to where Shiva is not".

So it is with tradition that regards practise as essential. Tradition cannot point to anything that is not already Oneness, including the states requiring no practise that it invalidates. Neo Advaita sees practise as an obstacle because it suggests that there is distance between seeker and sought which it promises to cover by practise and so denies that what is sought, already is. Tradition pays lip service to 'All is One', yet it excludes the things it doesnt like and seeks to modify or eliminate them through practise.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

No doubt.

***

If one looks close enough at any path, be it non-dualism, qualified non-dualism, dualism, theism, monoism, whatever, one will find the same types of practices. Practices that bring clarity and purity of mind (meditation, prayer, dancing, singing, chanting and selfless service), devotional practices (various ceremonies and worships) and knowledge practices (listening to or reading holy texts and scholarly interpretation).

This is nothing unique to Advaita Vedanta.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Anyone who's had a taste of it will know what I mean with this analogy.

You're having a dream. At some point in the dream and without waking up you become lucid with waking consciousness. Firmly within dream reality but with waking consciousness.

You're awake. At some point during wakefulness you become lucid with Turiya (Atman/Witness) consciousness. Firmly within waking reality but with Turiya consciousness.

It's unmistakable when experiencing and realizing that state of consciousness. It's just like a lucid dream in one way, but whereas a lucid dream is an amazing experience super-consciousness is a profound experience. A life-changing experience in the truest sense.

Yah, so you now 'know' that 'you' are an actor in an ongoing act of Creation, hence a Create-or. Big Deal! So what? Look at (ex-peerience) what 'you' are create-ing and choose whether you want to just keep on being-doing as is OR become-do something else, hopefully something qualitatively 'better'.

Just thinking/saying 'I' am a 'create-or' (whoopie! ) eventually gets 'old', like those folks who go around thinking/saying and celebrating that 'I' am 'god' (or 'atman', or whatever) and 'sucking' on that, like candy (or a mother's teat?) and staying the same, i.e doing nothing else.

What has your life changed to become and what do you do differently since you had that 'revelation', simple guy? Do share what you think is so 'amazing' about it. What are the ways in which 'you' are (and hence is your 'dream') continuing to grow and change/develop, besides reading more 'holy texts' which say the same thing and maybe doing the equivalent of 'singing' and 'chanting' more often, that is? 'I' would very much like to know and relate to such continuing development in 'you'.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yah, so you now 'know' that 'you' are an actor in an ongoing act of Creation, hence a Create-or. Big Deal! So what? Look at (ex-peerience) what 'you' are create-ing and choose whether you want to just keep on being-doing as is OR become-do something else, hopefully something qualitatively 'better'.

Just thinking/saying 'I' am a 'create-or' (whoopie! ) eventually gets 'old', like those folks who go around thinking/saying and celebrating that 'I' am 'god' (or 'atman', or whatever) and 'sucking' on that, like candy (or a mother's teat?) and staying the same, i.e doing nothing else.

What has your life changed to become and what do you do differently since you had that 'revelation', simple guy? Do share what you think is so 'amazing' about it. What are the ways in which 'you' are (and hence is your 'dream') continuing to grow and change/develop, besides reading more 'holy texts' which say the same thing and maybe doing the equivalent of 'singing' and 'chanting' more often, that is? 'I' would very much like to know and relate to such continuing development in 'you'.

For me it changed not only how I view the world and all that's in it but also how I relate to the world and all that's in it, and for the better. Less self-centered and more selfless and in all aspects of life.

What's so amazing? I tried to explain with the lucid dream analogy. That's amazing but a similar experience in waking life is beyond amazing. It's profound and I'm not using the word lightly. It lasted for several weeks before slowly beginning to fade but never completely evaporating and that's why I continue with practices. There's still much work to be done and in truth it doesn't really matter whether I ever get another profound taste or not. There are still temporal benefits that go far beyond me. Ripples in the pond...

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

For me it changed not only how I view the world and all that's in it but also how I relate to the world and all that's in it, and for the better. Less self-centered and more selfless and in all aspects of life.

What's so amazing? I tried to explain with the lucid dream analogy. That's amazing but a similar experience in waking life is beyond amazing. It's profound and I'm not using the word lightly. It lasted for several weeks before slowly beginning to fade but never completely evaporating and that's why I continue with practices. There's still much work to be done and in truth it doesn't really matter whether I ever get another profound taste or not. There are still temporal benefits that go far beyond me. Ripples in the pond...

As far as "ripples in a pond" goes, as you can see - 'I' am into making waves - among other things, by 'blowing up' log-jams stemming from idea-fixations on the 'supremacy' of 'God', 'ultimate' 'Reality', etc. and the logically consequent belief in the 'insignificance' or 'false' nature of our being-n-doing in the 'world'.

In your case (quoting from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta): "The followers of this school are known as Advaita Vedantins, or just Advaitins or Mayavadins, regarding the phenomenal world as illusory, that is, created by the sense-impressions and the mind, and they seek spiritual liberation through recognizing this illusoriness of the phenomenal world and acquiring vidyā (knowledge) of one's true identity as Atman, and the identity of Atman and Brahman."

Lemmeno if and, in that case, when you are ready to get of your 'dream horse' in this regard and go for a ride on one I'm 'dreaming up' for you, and we'll "Tally Ho" together, Bro.

You'll have to leave your 'comfort zone' behind by 'giving up' your "I'm just a simple Guy" dream-shtick for that dream to really gallop, though.