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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spirituality

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  #11  
Old 13-06-2019, 02:59 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 96
 
Terence . . .

The physical body and its senses are the vehicle / avenue we derive the vast majority of our opinions and beliefs. How the various life experiences make us physical “feel” compels us to form many belief sets. If the physical body is sickly . . . or “incomplete” in terms of amputation and such . . . this compels us to draw many belief sets too . . . and they often take many future lifetimes to lay to rest.

Another interesting tidbit . . . how long does it take for an individual to even partially grasp that the body is not who and what we truly are?

And yes . . . since we most often consider that the body is “us” . . . it takes forever just to get to the stage where we question that . . . and that seems to take “forever.” We will continue to accept the physical body as “us” for as long as these considerations fulfill us. It is only after we begin to suspect “there has to be more” . . . that we go beyond it all. The battle to NOT advance is most often much greater than to move forward into the unknown.

The acceptance of the physical body as “us” continues on and on. When the physical body doesn’t “cooperate” . . . we often turn to what is beyond the physical world to assist the body . . . along the lines of what Azurr0 was suggesting. Dealing with and bringing in these additional energies does indeed assist the physical in many ways . . . and also carries many lessons.

True spirituality carries one even beyond “energy.” ALL of LIFE . . . on ALL levels . . . is not energy. The understanding and discernment of that takes one truly into the Unknown . . . as far as most people know and understand. The areas of “pre-energy” . . . are humbling. Farther still . . . the areas of “pre-consciousness” is even more so. Traveling within these areas is when using words to describe . . . becomes truly tedious. Neither the mind nor the body are a part of these travels. This is something that the mind does NOT like to allow. The battle of the mind to stay in control of the individual is something that most people have no clue of. Most believe that the mind is fully cooperative in reaching beyond the mental worlds.

It isn’t.

It is honestly and vividly summed up in the old saying . . . we have met the enemy and the enemy is us.
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  #12  
Old 15-06-2019, 01:43 AM
Jaraja Jaraja is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 16
 
Hi, I will take this one step at a time otherwise it could become an unruly mess, as I see it we cannot use the mind to think our way out of this, if we could then we wouldn't be having this conversation. There are account's of mystical happenings and insights the question is how was/is this done
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  #13  
Old 15-06-2019, 02:36 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,863
 
the east gate to eden is closed so we aren't 'drifting' into mystical experiences... except when the keepers like to give us lessons but then it is very controlled.

the trick is to disregard all the talk that you can't do it and then find yourself working to figure out how to do it.

As it isn't something you can be 'told' how to do, in the way people like to share ideas of how to do things. The main problem being there is no common language to talk about it. We are all saying the same words and meaning different things, then each deciding to say our OWN meaning takes precedence over everyone elses and everyone else should therefore share ours. That isn't a way to communicate, that is a way to have fights.

But once you catch on that it is up to you whether or not to proceed and you also are responsible for figuring out HOW to proceed, then you get into the goals problem... you suddenly see a path and you set it as a goal to follow that path... but you don't see the path clearly and meanwhile the path is changing in subtle ways anyway, so the goal doesn't work in a 'straight line' (for lack of better phrasing) and so if you blindly follow any goal you have set using the methodologies you saw when you set the goal, you quickly get trapped.

So to progress, like a little child you find yourself continuously learning, adapting, changing how you interact with things.... and this is very difficult because the mind always wants to convince you things are more limited than they really are. I mean it REALLY wants to convince you of that, so much so that it will couch limitations as if they aren't really limitations to convince you, if you won't buy it when it is initially trying to convince you. That does most people in pretty quickly. But if you get past that it will tell you (for example) you HAVE to have the methodology of continuously learning, adapting, and changing how you interact with things in order to achieve your goals... which when stated that way becomes just as limiting as anything else it says. Because once you decide you have to have something you won't allow yourself to make the choice to let it go... and one more choice you won't allow yourself means one more degree of freedom you won't allow yourself.

Limitations really pile up, fast, which is really the basic reason it is hard to get anywhere when you are trying... but like I say east gate to eden is closed (shrugs).

People like eastern masters have gotten around those kinds of problems at the gross level and can have 'experiences' that might be in some way desirable. but from what I can tell they just find themselves in similar traps, at another level of existance. The main difference between past and present being that now they don't have a context in which to recognize that essentially nothing has changed.
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  #14  
Old 15-06-2019, 03:47 AM
Jaraja Jaraja is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 16
 
Like I said it's not about mind stuff, so learning, adapting, changing and philosophy don't cut it here. The thing is if a way presented itself would anyone recognise it
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  #15  
Old 15-06-2019, 04:20 AM
sibeagsimhor sibeagsimhor is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 6
 
There is no such thing as spirituality.

A plant does not feel enlightened when it dies nor does it fear death. it just lives the best way it can and is happy doing so. It breeds other plants. It creates networks of life within the soil. It sustains all life and dies. It does not give a **** about some pseudo concept of spirituality. It just is. It is not introspective. It simply loves the light and feeds from light. The plant has no eternal soul. We have no eternal soul. We have only the choice to put back in - or not.
We are plants pure and simple.
We can be beautiful - pure and simple
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  #16  
Old 15-06-2019, 04:55 AM
Jaraja Jaraja is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 16
 
Sounds like your in a vegetative state
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  #17  
Old 15-06-2019, 09:50 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,863
 
that isn't what I said. Oh well...
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  #18  
Old 15-06-2019, 10:06 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
Posts: 1,063
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibeagsimhor
There is no such thing as spirituality.

A plant does not feel enlightened when it dies nor does it fear death. it just lives the best way it can and is happy doing so. It breeds other plants. It creates networks of life within the soil. It sustains all life and dies. It does not give a **** about some pseudo concept of spirituality. It just is. It is not introspective. It simply loves the light and feeds from light. The plant has no eternal soul. We have no eternal soul. We have only the choice to put back in - or not.
We are plants pure and simple.
We can be beautiful - pure and simple

You may believe that you have the same level of development and potential as a plant. Others believe differently.

Peace.
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  #19  
Old 18-06-2019, 01:36 PM
Terence3153 Terence3153 is offline
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Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 6
 
Zork,

Thank you for sharing this. I agree with all the points you stated.

I’d like to drill down a little deeper on some topics.

When you refer to the sickly physical body needing possibly many lifetimes to lay to rest. Can you expand upon how to “lay to rest”.

You refer to bringing in “energies” to assist the physical. Any other energies to speak of besides for the physical?

How would you describe a spiritual practice that can put the body and mind in harmony? And then to go beyond energy?

I’m not sure if you are aware, but in the I Ching (Book of Changes), besides being a tool used for divination, it is also a cosmological text describing the origin and evolution of the universe. The hexagrams are used to describe this manifested universe. Different people have provided interpretion of this over the centuries. However, the trigrams in I Ching, refer to exactly what you were referring to about pre-energy and pre-consciousness. Or pre-manifestation. That is, prior to the big bang. As far as I am aware, noone has provided interpretations of this pre-manifestation in the I Ching. Do you have any thoughts or insights on pre-manifestation and our relationship with it?

Terence


Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop
Terence . . .

The physical body and its senses are the vehicle / avenue we derive the vast majority of our opinions and beliefs. How the various life experiences make us physical “feel” compels us to form many belief sets. If the physical body is sickly . . . or “incomplete” in terms of amputation and such . . . this compels us to draw many belief sets too . . . and they often take many future lifetimes to lay to rest.

Another interesting tidbit . . . how long does it take for an individual to even partially grasp that the body is not who and what we truly are?

And yes . . . since we most often consider that the body is “us” . . . it takes forever just to get to the stage where we question that . . . and that seems to take “forever.” We will continue to accept the physical body as “us” for as long as these considerations fulfill us. It is only after we begin to suspect “there has to be more” . . . that we go beyond it all. The battle to NOT advance is most often much greater than to move forward into the unknown.

The acceptance of the physical body as “us” continues on and on. When the physical body doesn’t “cooperate” . . . we often turn to what is beyond the physical world to assist the body . . . along the lines of what Azurr0 was suggesting. Dealing with and bringing in these additional energies does indeed assist the physical in many ways . . . and also carries many lessons.

True spirituality carries one even beyond “energy.” ALL of LIFE . . . on ALL levels . . . is not energy. The understanding and discernment of that takes one truly into the Unknown . . . as far as most people know and understand. The areas of “pre-energy” . . . are humbling. Farther still . . . the areas of “pre-consciousness” is even more so. Traveling within these areas is when using words to describe . . . becomes truly tedious. Neither the mind nor the body are a part of these travels. This is something that the mind does NOT like to allow. The battle of the mind to stay in control of the individual is something that most people have no clue of. Most believe that the mind is fully cooperative in reaching beyond the mental worlds.

It isn’t.

It is honestly and vividly summed up in the old saying . . . we have met the enemy and the enemy is us.
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  #20  
Old 30-06-2019, 06:04 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 96
 
Actually . . . the whole question of what is and not truly and technically spiritual . . . is a superb example of what the psychic worlds of the mind, emotions, and physical body does with such a pondering. The lower psychic worlds are composed of positive and negative elements . . . all the way to the construction of the atom . . . and through the atom these worlds compose or manifest “things” or “forms.”

The true spiritual worlds . . . beyond the psychic worlds . . . does not encompass a negative element . . . and so does not “form things” . . . but is still completely filled with “Essence” or “Substance” or “Force” . . . whatever word one wishes to user there.

One cannot *see* a thought . . . or one cannot *see* an emotion . . . but one can observe the effects of both or either. Most of existence is invisible to the physical eyes. And much more of Existence lies beyond the sense of the psychic worlds.

But look at what mind has made out of this dilemma. To many . . . it’s down to . . . if it’s not physical, then it’s spiritual.

Um . . . no.

But . . . figuring this out and working through it . . . how else is one to learn?

But again . . . just look at what mind has done to this issue . . . and this exemplifies just what mind can do . . . and cannot.
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