Cause of existence

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

With my third eye I didn't open up, but my forehead tingled constantly for a few years and sometimes goes intense all swirly vortex like - and during the meditations it connects to the crown feeling like a whole head chakra teehee.

I wonder why people need to know and what is there to know when you are not actually knowing it. Isn't the knowledge just rising in memory and then going away? 'Knowingness' is more like seeing the knowledge rise up when it's needed for something and letting it disappear again when it has no use. Knowingness is seeing the nature of it, which is called 'insight', and insight is 'the truth that sets you free'. As m'boy Krishnamurti put it, 'it is the truth that liberates, not your efforts to be free'.

On this forum we see, I think obviously, when one parades about as the one who knows, the whole conversation degenaratres into petty infantile nonsense. As soon as the one who knows stops, people regain their senses. It's simple really - knowledge is power - and one has to be acutely aware of its forces. If persons don't know that, they are unqualified in 'helping'. You know in my 'real life' I'm qualified as a professional helper, and in that game we understand how to create the space and open possibilities for people to move and grow without telling them anything... It's a game of listening with complete full attention, and responding in a way that opens up to more... People are amazed sometimes because no one has ever listened to them. People have always had advice, had the answer, had the solution to the problem, but no one has ever actually listened and heard the story.

So you show through a meditative practice how you opened and became aware of your "whole head"..�� The way in which I have learned through an individual chakra assessment and conscious experience of a whole host of interconnected relationships each one can relate too..In the end I too resigned myself to my whole head but wait there was more..haha down into the core of things and then into a more conscious integration ongoing. It becomes all very valid and important in process of course but the mind will and can trap you in this way if your not open to more and the transient nature of all aspects of self as life goes on. So for me, what was moving for me was an awareness of the many interrelated streams of each chakra and how in the opening of each one as a basis for information, knowledge, in the end I was really only moving into an awareness of more, of less of really what was in the becoming and important to my true nature aware of itself more as an emptiness in all that. And then of course moving as that aware that it means that the real and true story speaks more consciously aware of the deeper wisdom found within all that. I suppose I relate wisdom listening as the final front of third eye insistence, if you get my drift and understanding.

I agree with everything your questioning and applying, it all rings true in me.Your response about knowing and need too know opened me to share this. The ego or minds hold on to itself through the belief "it knows" and then kind of seals itself in place for a while to experience itself as that more complete as the whole stream before letting go of that. It is as I have learned reclaiming itself through a more whole infused knowledge system to build meaning this way. The whole host of itself lost within that conditioned aspect of that issue. Some walk through needing to know ongoing to fight all those demons before heralding... I now know! That greater expanded walk is and seems to be important to the"giving back or being of service (as some say)aware.. Right now in my work practice I am present with many ending their need to know. Ending those attachments much like I had to do. I am very conscious of their proces. It is very familiar and Kindred in me. So my long winded process eve as it now looks through a simple clear view in me, is also very conscious and mindful of others reflecting myself aware now.

I do know and observe you as a professional supportive person in your world. My greater expanded lessons lead me to understand that within the process of self the wise listening awareness is the most respectful and consciously aware of itself in that space. They or others are their own process. So now when others open in my presence and say to me."what are you doing to me?" I let them know that I am simply holding my own presence,aware of you deeper. And offering through more conscious aware listening what I can to support your process. This becomes a natural open presence "aware"with what is, in the shared space as one.) They do the work. There is no escape from yourself even as you may believe something outside of self creates the shift I any given moment. It is both a conscious and mindful walk with others until you can seperate and end your own delusions and illusive views of others in you and become your true self aware of more than yourself.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Gem

Gotama was sensible bloke, so he didn't say it isn't existing.

If you want to understand the Buddhist thing on 'views' then it's probably easily found on line. I don't think you are interested in it, though, so have no cause to bore you.

What you're claiming to be 'the Buddhist thing on 'views'' is just an irrational ecapist view but not the buddhist view. It is an outflow of Nagarjuna's irrationality.

"Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view.

"And what is right view? Right view, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions [of becoming]; there is right view that is noble, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.

"One makes an effort for the abandoning of wrong view & for entering into right view: This is one's right effort.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....117.than.html

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

I know how people meditate for liberation in their mind. When some shaped energy is gathered in their brains and their consciousness passing the shaped energy , their consciousness passing them so to cancel the energy there or your consciousness can gain certain amount of that energy and it can get stronger and strengthened each time. That process of cancellation is called liberation or free of that energy connection or burden. Finally, or one day you may have enough or stronger energy for your consciousness to do spiritual work as Buddha like. That's the practice of Buddha Sakyamuni teaching. But he didn't tell clearly.

I never do meditation but I jump over that part and I do gain differently that's a dangerous way that can damage your eyesight or your brain. so I'll not telling my methods here.

The first part sounds to me like which I have called 'dissolving in the light of conscious awareness', which is a little bit complicated to explain. I think what you are calling 'cancellation' is what I call 'cessation', but cessation isn't a doing - more like an undoing. As a metaphor, lets say one has some stress so there is a tension in their shoulders, but then notice their shoulders are tense, so they stop tensing them - more like a stop-doing.

The second part about getting stronger minded sounds like concentration, and concentrated mind is undistracted mind, so people have to deal with their distraction before they can flex the mind in deliberate concentration. The meditation is a deeper thing than concentration. Concentration is what one does with the mind, and meditation is the awareness of the mind/body from beyond the mind. So in meditation there observation without volition, and that's the cessation of kamma; however, the sankaras produced by kamma of the past still have that potential and they will necessarily arise in conscious awareness, and there be dissolved in its light, but only if one observes, lets them be, and ceases the volition, the kamma, so new sankaras are not formed. As the old sankaras form and disolve, and no new ones are produced - that's what we call the 'purification'.

The meditation practice is not for this purpose. It is the end of desire and aversion. That's all. The absence of desire and aversion is the pure observation. This absence of desire and aversion is what call 'equanimity', and thus 'equanimity' refers to the nature of pure awareness, the natural state, the way it is.

Meditation is awareness with equanimity. It has no purpose per se - but the consequence of practice is purification - starting today at the solid level, then going subtler and subtler as ones perception becomes increasingly sensitive. As a consequence of purifying and sensitising, the solidity of the body relaxes into movement throughout the lifeform, the vibration, waves and flow of it. Where impurity has left the body, the energy flows into that area - I have 'seen' it in the minds eye like pure white light, but mostly it is felt in the sensations of 'opening up' - and love starts to bubble up through the opening heart. So I must quote Krishanmurti again, for he said it so well: 'the flowering of love is meditation'.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ground

What you're claiming to be 'the Buddhist thing on 'views'' is just an irrational ecapist view but not the buddhist view. It is an outflow of Nagarjuna's irrationality.

I've never heard of him, so I'll take your word for it.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Gem

I've never heard of him, so I'll take your word for it.

you've been following one of his followers that is sufficient.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Gem

The first part sounds to me like which I have called 'dissolving in the light of conscious awareness', which is a little bit complicated to explain. I think what you are calling 'cancellation' is what I call 'cessation', but cessation isn't a doing - more like an undoing. As a metaphor, lets say one has some stress so there is a tension in their shoulders, but then notice their shoulders are tense, so they stop tensing them - more like a stop-doing.

The second part about getting stronger minded sounds like concentration, and concentrated mind is undistracted mind, so people have to deal with their distraction before they can flex the mind in deliberate concentration. The meditation is a deeper thing than concentration. Concentration is what one does with the mind, and meditation is the awareness of the mind/body from beyond the mind. So in meditation there observation without volition, and that's the cessation of kamma; however, the sankaras produced by kamma of the past still have that potential and they will necessarily arise in conscious awareness, and there be dissolved in its light, but only if one observes, lets them be, and ceases the volition, the kamma, so new sankaras are not formed. As the old sankaras form and disolve, and no new ones are produced - that's what we call the 'purification'.

The meditation practice is not for this purpose. It is the end of desire and aversion. That's all. The absence of desire and aversion is the pure observation. This absence of desire and aversion is what call 'equanimity', and thus 'equanimity' refers to the nature of pure awareness, the natural state, the way it is.

Meditation is awareness with equanimity. It has no purpose per se - but the consequence of practice is purification - starting today at the solid level, then going subtler and subtler as ones perception becomes increasingly sensitive. As a consequence of purifying and sensitising, the solidity of the body relaxes into movement throughout the lifeform, the vibration, waves and flow of it. Where impurity has left the body, the energy flows into that area - I have 'seen' it in the minds eye like pure white light, but mostly it is felt in the sensations of 'opening up' - and love starts to bubble up through the opening heart. So I must quote Krishanmurti again, for he said it so well: 'the flowering of love is meditation'.

They're two ways that can be done, by using the light, it can dissolve or shrink any attachments to the light or using the energy consciousness to pass through the attachments. These are two different process.

We are talking about two different process here. One is using consciousness to pass through the attachments another one is using light to shrink them into the light. So cancellation and cessation work differently. But cessation may not work for all people because not many have that so call "light".

Equanimity is achieved when there has no attachment is in the mind or you can calm myself down. For pure white light is not everyone has it in his mind, it can be from outside. As I know , the demons "energy" religion are gathering of energy light from their followers to spreading this white or dark energy light.

Equanimity is depending on one's propensity or personality or cultivation of personality by that person or it can be practice by using methods. As for me, I can do it anyhow or whatever or wherever or whenever I crave for it . It's simple because you just think of nothing, but concentrate on your inner self and slowly let your craving diminish in a few seconds then you can achieve the equanimity. After I've done it the first time and I no need to do it again or just to claim for then it will appear in my mind.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

So you show through a meditative practice how you opened and became aware of your "whole head"..��

Well, I have had a lot intense sensation all through me.

The way in which I have learned through an individual chakra assessment and conscious experience of a whole host of interconnected relationships each one can relate too..In the end I too resigned myself to my whole head but wait there was more..haha down into the core of things and then into a more conscious integration ongoing.

Interesting, I think that whole integration is the cause maybe, because I have found that the opening up is a consequence of the healing, not the other way round.

It becomes all very valid and important in process of course but the mind will and can trap you in this way if your not open to more and the transient nature of all aspects of self as life goes on. So for me, what was moving for me was an awareness of the many interrelated streams of each chakra and how in the opening of each one as a basis for information, knowledge, in the end I was really only moving into an awareness of more, of less of really what was in the becoming and important to my true nature aware of itself more as an emptiness in all that. And then of course moving as that aware that it means that the real and true story speaks more consciously aware of the deeper wisdom found within all that. I suppose I relate wisdom listening as the final front of third eye insistence, if you get my drift and understanding.

I'm not really getting it, but I have very limited understanding of chakra, so maybe it's all over my head.

I have experienced various opening ups in locations where they say chakras are, but then I'm like, 'interesting sensation', and to me, it's not important. It's just a feeling, and later it goes away.

I agree with everything your questioning and applying, it all rings true in me.Your response about knowing and need too know opened me to share this. The ego or minds hold on to itself through the belief "it knows" and then kind of seals itself in place for a while to experience itself as that more complete as the whole stream before letting go of that. It is as I have learned reclaiming itself through a more whole infused knowledge system to build meaning this way.

Yes, I guess so, because there's what I know, but all I can say is meanings. Mostly, I just don't know. I do know postures of knowledge end in bad vibes and I'm all about the groovy vibes, man...

The whole host of itself lost within that conditioned aspect of that issue. Some walk through needing to know ongoing to fight all those demons before heralding... I now know! That greater expanded walk is and seems to be important to the"giving back or being of service (as some say)aware.. Right now in my work practice I am present with many ending their need to know. Ending those attachments much like I had to do. I am very conscious of their proces. It is very familiar and Kindred in me. So my long winded process eve as it now looks through a simple clear view in me, is also very conscious and mindful of others reflecting myself aware now.

I think my case, I don't need to know, but I do understand in life how uncomfortable and unsettling uncertainty can be, and I know people experiencing that tend to latch onto answers to get relief. I'm a little different because I prefer to be of comfort in uncertain times, but not provide relief. I like to leave all decisions up to a person, and not influence them with advice and solutions. Just talking the thing through can bring a lot of clarity.

I do know and observe you as a professional supportive person in your world. My greater expanded lessons lead me to understand that within the process of self the wise listening awareness is the most respectful and consciously aware of itself in that space. They or others are their own process. So now when others open in my presence and say to me."what are you doing to me?" I let them know that I am simply holding my own presence,aware of you deeper. And offering through more conscious aware listening what I can to support your process. This becomes a natural open presence "aware"with what is, in the shared space as one.) They do the work. There is no escape from yourself even as you may believe something outside of self creates the shift I any given moment. It is both a conscious and mindful walk with others until you can seperate and end your own delusions and illusive views of others in you and become your true self aware of more than yourself.

You know how I see it... it's like you and I aren't just an individual listener, but more like embodiments of the conscious awareness common to us, and listening is that egoless consciousness, which does nothing but know. The the person starts to tell the story, and things long revealed start coming out, and they secreted things for good reason, but they tentatively let a bit show, and there's no shock, no judgement, so they figure its safe to let a little more show... When they feel uncomfortable with it, that's enough... I mean you can't push the blooming of a flower...

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ground

you've been following one of his followers that is sufficient.

I wouldn't mistake my admiration for any individual as following, but I figure you refer to TNH.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

Well, I have had a lot intense sensation all through me.


Interesting, I think that whole integration is the cause maybe, because I have found that the opening up is a consequence of the healing, not the other way round.


I'm not really getting it, but I have very limited understanding of chakra, so maybe it's all over my head.

I have experienced various opening ups in locations where they say chakras are, but then I'm like, 'interesting sensation', and to me, it's not important. It's just a feeling, and later it goes away.


Yes, I guess so, because there's what I know, but all I can say is meanings. Mostly, I just don't know. I do know postures of knowledge end in bad vibes and I'm all about the groovy vibes, man...


I think my case, I don't need to know, but I do understand in life how uncomfortable and unsettling uncertainty can be, and I know people experiencing that tend to latch onto answers to get relief. I'm a little different because I prefer to be of comfort in uncertain times, but not provide relief. I like to leave all decisions up to a person, and not influence them with advice and solutions. Just talking the thing through can bring a lot of clarity.


You know how I see it... it's like you and I aren't just an individual listener, but more like embodiments of the conscious awareness common to us, and listening is that egoless consciousness, which does nothing but know. The the person starts to tell the story, and things long revealed start coming out, and they secreted things for good reason, but they tentatively let a bit show, and there's no shock, no judgement, so they figure its safe to let a little more show... When they feel uncomfortable with it, that's enough... I mean you can't push the blooming of a flower...

What I meant about individual process and integration is this, the process of attaining insight/clarity whatever one calls it, becomes like markers of awareness to the process of others walking through their process. One aspect of learning those markers now integrated in me through universal wonders and experiences is the deeper awareness of the Buddhist teachings that have as you mentioned become an embodiment and open state "aware". The process for myself now serves my listening and support of others. Did I need to walk through, open to so much in connection to understand the core essence and my true self in much simpler terms of living and being me? Yes. Fear laden, conditioned skewed views plus suppressed emotional baggage chose a path entwined in many paths to experience myself connected in this way. I would say now all those tools I used were really only information that I could relate connections to the world in ways that resonated and felt safe to reveal myself to myself in. I never ignored myself in all those things so through process and undestanding thingsike chakras, energy healing practices and the many so called new age practices I opened to, I was a self aware and deeply self reflective person.

My goal through process was to find myself in a those things. Now she I am working with others the space is my clarity, because I listen as deep as I listen to myself clear. I was deeply afraid of others, life and had no buffer (supportive mechanism in me at all to build safe process. So those external relationships provided a tool (which became my parental reconnection/safe source)that built a slow and comfortable feeling "I feel connected and feel some measure of control in my world" To stand up for myself, open and let go.

So long standing trust and liberation was done "my way" and through a deeper connection of ones relationship to the world from that point of awareness is the feeling and connection one can do anything. Live fully safe and know that the world as it is still supports me as I am now. When your a seed of deep rooted fear the core aspect of not wa ting to let go will have you in delusion for a very long time in the unfolding of deeper grounded trust.

[naturesflow]

I wanted to add this but I couldn't edit my post.

Trust of self/trust of others/trust of life. When you trust yourself and feel connected and embodied with core strength on all levels of that in you,you can move through the world open to others and life more grounded and clear. Your knowing is then. I know myself. The knowing and proving yourself to yourself through this whole. "Look at what I know". " I know more than you" " your wrong, I am right mentality ceases". And people in Buddhist threads actually move past their constant back and forth knowingness to know themselves in all that..��