Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 29-03-2011, 12:41 AM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 24,945
  Miss Hepburn's Avatar
Excellent.

Perhaps it would help people to describe or give examples on
how in fact we can "love ourselves".

I could fill in the blanks, but I'm a ham --- I'll give you the floor.
Miss Hepburn
__________________

.
*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 29-03-2011, 01:30 AM
Simon Karlos
Posts: n/a
 
Fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuJanLi
Greetings..


Aye, my friend.. is it compromise to see no difference, to experience both as Unity of the Human Experience? I see the Spirit in the flesh, deeds are the signature of the Soul, flesh bearing witness to 'that' which it 'is'..

Be well..

Hi brother. Seeing the "Spirit in the flesh" is only possible through perceiving beyond the flesh, which is what Jesus's quote was about, since one cannot serve two masters with any given thought in the moment. One clearly cannot "see" anything spiritual about the flesh with the physical eyes nor the physical senses. You're speaking of "Spirit in manifestation," whereas I am speaking of the Spirit that is Eternal, Changeless and knows nothing of manifestation. Spirit in its True State never really manifested. Manifestation is a dream, a movie. Even Quantum Physics clearly shows that there is no "flesh" as such. Although I know most people don't agree with this, Spirit Itself is the only Reality, and it is beyond all description and perception. Basically, you are perceiving a difference where there is none. The quote was saying essentially what you said, and it had an additional part to it, which is basically "One cannot serve both Spirit and flesh, simply because there is no flesh. There is only Spirit." The "seeing" that you speak of is perception, which is not seeing in the true sense of knowing that Reality that is beyond the imagination. As you know, flesh is a product of imagination. Spirit is beyond all imagination, perception and dualistic concepts.

"Spirit in the flesh" and "deeds are the signature of the soul" are "true" only as far as what one calls multidimensional reality goes. Yes, I recognize the teachings of Seth there! But all teachings of "multidimensional reality" are still close to most dualistic teachings, whereas teachers such as the Buddha and Jesus actually transcended all "dimensions," realizing a Reality that is constant, absolute and unchanging. Theirs was really a teaching of pure non-duality, such as Ramana Maharshi and Lao Tzu (he referred to Absolute Reality as the "uncarved block" in the Tao Te Ching, which even transcends the Tao; the Tao Te Ching is really not about the Tao, but about realizing the state of the "uncarved block," you see, which is stable, unchanged reality).

"Recognizing the spirit" in the quote I mentioned doesn't deny the validity of the flesh in the least. Quite the opposite. It isn't until one can intuitively realize that there is indeed an Absolute, Changeless Reality that is beyond all concepts and descriptions that one can truly respect and enjoy physical existence for the illusion that it is to the fullest. I know it seems impossible to most humans to even consider that none of this "here" is really happening at all, and never really happened, and that "we" doesn't exist, there are no separate "souls," and that there's a True Reality that is beyond anything the human mind can ever conceive of, which I why I only speak of these things to very few seekers. I even recommend teachings such as Seth, etc., still finding value in them myself, but I also know that surrendering to a spiritual Absolute (which one can also call "unconditional love") means that I cannot serve both flesh and spirit at the same time. Why? Because THERE IS NO FLESH as such, my friend. Material reality is not Reality at all. It is just an unstable perception of the mind (as perception is not stable), and perception is not Divine Knowledge. Matter cannot really be spiritualized, nor can Changeless Spirit (Lao Tzu's "uncarved block") really manifest at all. It only "appears" to manifest. Manifestation is just a projection of consciousness. Absolute Reality is the Unmanifest. Material reality at best can be perceived as a dream, a movie, which is exactly what Jesus and Buddha and similar teachers were conveying, but in human language, which by nature is dualistic, and so they did their best. In my own experience, having a deep resonance and FELT connection to this "pure non-dualistic teaching" has helped me expand in consciousness and compassion in ways that no dualistic or multidimensional spiritual teaching could ever do for me, because it cuts right through ALL notions of separation (for Spirit in flesh is still a dualistic concept) to the very Infinite and Eternal Spirit Itself, with no need to "spiritualize" physical reality. That which is truly Sacred is beyond imagination. I can at best say that in my experience I have remembrances of this Reality, which I really have no words to use here that would do It "justice." It is IS what it IS.

Blessings
Kar
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 29-03-2011, 01:50 AM
Simon Karlos
Posts: n/a
 
Fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Excellent.

Perhaps it would help people to describe or give examples on
how in fact we can "love ourselves".

I could fill in the blanks, but I'm a ham --- I'll give you the floor.
Miss Hepburn

Ah yes! I agree. Giving "examples" has been primarily what I've done in most of my threads at SF, as a few have noticed. The manner in which I've shared them has often been very unconventional (even for a place such as this!), humorous, and "veiled" in a way as to help people have some Zen-like moments of deep Self-witnessing, but mostly to simply help people be easier on themselves, which is actually the Number 1 thing that most spiritual seekers (ultimately meaning all of humanity) would most immediately benefit from. Every single post is designed this way. Not only my posts, but EVERYONE'S posts here have deeper Spiritual significance in them, with an underlying message of spiritual unity, which is the intent on which this website was created in the first place. :) I don't mean people trying to unite; I mean the spiritual fact that we are already "united" as One, and this "we" that is perceived is just a projection of consciousness, a "dream."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 29-03-2011, 02:01 AM
TzuJanLi
Posts: n/a
 
Greetings..

"It is what it is".. is best left at that.. i have no interest in claims about what is or isn't reality, i play the hand i'm dealt.. what Jesus or Buddha or Lao Tzu, said or believed is 'their' experiences, what are 'yours'.. i do not intend to speculate as to what the masters and gurus meant, when what they said was clear..

We are here, now.. living the only provable existence we have, speculating about the Great Mystery rather than resolving the inconsistencies in Lifes we are living, is its own inconsistency..

It is after death, as it was before birth, be fully present for what you have.. what you had, and will have again, will be revealed in its own time, as the physical experience malfunctions.. we do not know, hence the Great Mystery, and certainty about matters not not in evidence is commonly known as superstition..

The great conflicts, and the wars of faith today, are based on a certainty of things not tangible or evidenced in any way besides the faith of belief.. anecdotal tales of mystical beliefs is hardly reason to take a Life, far less reason for 'crusades and jihads'.. we suffer at the hands of superstitious beliefs, when the actualities of Life point to cooperation and harmony as the practical direction for advancing the Human Experience into its full potential..

Be well..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 29-03-2011, 02:33 AM
Simon Karlos
Posts: n/a
 
Fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuJanLi
Greetings..

"It is what it is".. is best left at that.. i have no interest in claims about what is or isn't reality, i play the hand i'm dealt.. what Jesus or Buddha or Lao Tzu, said or believed is 'their' experiences, what are 'yours'.. i do not intend to speculate as to what the masters and gurus meant, when what they said was clear..

We are here, now.. living the only provable existence we have, speculating about the Great Mystery rather than resolving the inconsistencies in Lifes we are living, is its own inconsistency..

It is after death, as it was before birth, be fully present for what you have.. what you had, and will have again, will be revealed in its own time, as the physical experience malfunctions.. we do not know, hence the Great Mystery, and certainty about matters not not in evidence is commonly known as superstition..

The great conflicts, and the wars of faith today, are based on a certainty of things not tangible or evidenced in any way besides the faith of belief.. anecdotal tales of mystical beliefs is hardly reason to take a Life, far less reason for 'crusades and jihads'.. we suffer at the hands of superstitious beliefs, when the actualities of Life point to cooperation and harmony as the practical direction for advancing the Human Experience into its full potential..

Be well..

You aren't "dealt" any hand, my friend. That's victim consciousness. You are, as consciousness, the creator of all of your experiences. Believing that you are dealing with a hand that's dealt is the same basic consciousness that most humans have, and it's very disempowering, my friend. "Who" is this imagined force or entity that "deals out" the fate of humankind? This is the same belief system as the Romans and all ancient cultures with their "gods" and "fates" that determined things for them. Yes, there IS a "dealer" in a sense, but the dealer is consciousness itself, and not the Absolute Reality I speak of, nor another person, government, parents, or any other entity. That belief you express IS an ancient superstitious belief.

The great conflicts are based on fear and ignorance, not certainty. Certainty is not harmful, it is an expression of Self-love. What you perceive as "certainty" among warmongers is merely arrogance and fear, because it is only a person who feels uncertain and disempowered who would become a "tyrant." You think it is "certainty" because you are equating such people with having some "power" over others, which they do not. All harm is really self-harm. The "true victims" of war, in this sense, are those who seek to control others.

Understand that ALL belief is speculation, in a broad sense of the term. You speculate just as equally as the next man. You are not exempt from that, my man. Cooperation and harmony come through Self-love, not through "trying" to create harmonious communities. There's no way around this. If you have no interest in claims of what is or isn't reality, then why do you go from forum to forum trying to correct the views of others? I mean no disrespect, my friend, because I personally think you have a very brilliant mind. I simply noticed what was very obvious. Instead of creating mostly your own threads, you find places where people have different beliefs and then you seek to engage them in debate, because they have different beliefs. Did you even read my original post in this thread at all? I suggest you really read it. SF is not a debate forum, my friend. My intent here is to share with those who appreciate, not initiate political discussion and debate. You have the wrong forum for that. Forgive me, for you are now on my blocked/ignore list, TzuJanLi. Best wishes.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 29-03-2011, 03:55 AM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 24,945
  Miss Hepburn's Avatar
Simon,
This is the first time I have ever read you here...you are quite articulate.
Is that really a picture of you?
I would find it suprising that you are so young and this wise.
__________________

.
*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 29-03-2011, 04:20 AM
Acchaa Dalit
Posts: n/a
 
Let me add though, you've both presented some wonderful points for us spectators to ponder over. Every one of us are learning and seeing new perspectives on the old intellectual humdrum, not just resonating with your nice intentions. I really have to ask, what do we feel personally? Without quoting or using words that everyone has a different definition for. After all, along with returning to the uncarved block, Lao Tzu reminded us "To quote one's teachers is to seek credence for one's own words."
How funny that quote is. It's so hard to use when talking about the masters - except in a community like this one, where we trust our audience not to lose confidence in us when we suggest that, hey, we're doing things that others do to feel like their words are correct. Because so many of us see past words and feel the meaning they're soaked in. Simon, do you think that's a good example of love too?
Basically, let me join the chorus - thank you both so much for reminding us why we feel, experience, and why we question the hard physical things in our environment. It's nice, realizing you're playing along with the illusion by saying that. It's acceptance, which is one of the things you'll definitely experience when your mind clears ... Isn't it? :)

So, love, appreciation - do you think the feeling and rush can be separated from that feeling of ascension that fills us, or the knowledge of formless essence? I still haven't seen bliss occur without good feelings - it's as if spiritual growth inspires itself, but it's euphoria that inspires us to know about it. What bliss is more complete and life-affirming that self acceptance? Simon, I think you're onto something very essential in every spirit.

The other day, I asked a Zen teacher how important thought is in realizing ourselves and transcendence. Every koan and piece of advice is designed to still thought ... But those things are thoughts themselves.
He found it hard to answer, but gave us a nice Hindu story about the first man (Shiva wanted to see himself the way someone else would, and from that thought - pop! - Adam).

I honestly think thought and debate can lead us to growth as much as it can to stagnation and suffering. Disagreeing is so different from trying to suppress another's beliefs, and the difference is need. Need for others to be what you are, but in fact they aren't. When beliefs clash on the outside, in our physical, all we have to ask is "Is this helping us all? Do we feel more open, and are we learning to accept that every mind has a different colour scheme?" That's all beliefs are - different decorations in the same room. They're nice to have around.

So, guys, what happens in you personally? Do you remember a time when you got a bit too orthodox and put technique before feel? I'm very interested in how your knowledge came to you. And if you disagree with anything I've suggested ... please, show us how many ways there are to decorate our headspace :)

Oh - thinking on that first post, how people treat other paths when they treat their own too intellectually ... Let me just say, hello ;)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 29-03-2011, 07:58 AM
God-Like God-Like is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,874
  God-Like's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Karlos
Truly loving oneself, appreciating oneself, is unparalleled by any meditative practice, for unless the meditation is an exercise in genuine unconditional love, it is dry, with very little life and benefit to the practitioner. Self-appreciation is so simple and effective as a true spiritual "practice" and way of living that unless one is open to the idea of it, he is very likely to shun it as being foolish and prefer a more "realistic" practice, such as doing ritualized meditation sessions. Teachers such as Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Ramana Maharshi, Sri Krishna and Mother Teresa, and so many others, have spoken on occasion that one does not need ritual nor meditation in order to derive the same benefits. These teachers have been known to say that love is all you need, and that if you have love you don't need meditation, and by "love" they meant an honest, open willingness to embrace oneself fully and unconditionally. Sri Krishna and Neem Karoli Baba spoke of this quite often, placing love above all meditative practices. The Beatles hit the nail on the head with "All You Need Is Love." This is not to say that practices should be avoided, for meditation is a way of learning about the TRUE NATURE of love, which really cannot be expressed in words. Many highly intellectual students of meditation dismiss love, which accounts for their lack of free-spirited humor and their defensiveness towards others who don't share their perspective, and they will often go into places where they can "teach" people the "right" or "best" way, and when they come across people and material that they disagree with, they are very quick to respond with their opinions, often without a greeting of "Hello."

The answer is here, right now, and it doesn't involve any specific "practice" at all! Self-appreciation is closer than the breath, closer than the tip of your nose and closer than any meditative practice. That being said, it is still good to encourage practices, for they are all beautiful creative expressions. The message of self-appreciation here is not a rejection of any practices, but an honoring of all practices and belief systems, with a core emphasis on appreciating oneself fully as a practice, if you will, for anyone who appeals to this idea. Self-appreciation doesn't exclude anyone, giving one a true sense of oneness. It is funny that people meditate in order to feel well-being, whereas almost none of them begin with the very FIRST PREMISE, which is well-being itself. "Why not start with self-love, self-validation, and allow that to be a meditation?" the masters truly teach. For those who want and could benefit from specific "practices," a wise teacher will give them. Focusing on breathing, nothingness, stillness, the Atma, etc. are all of very little use unless one FIRST begins with an honest sense of defenselessness, openness and self-love. As long as one feels threatened by "others" with different beliefs (and it is not possible to live as a human without beliefs and desires. Jesus and Buddha still had thoughts and a basic desire for human expression, or else there would be no appearance of their "physical existence," no incarnation), then their meditations will lack true depth and clarity into the nature of Who-They-Really-Are. One simply CANNOT master the human experience without eventually surrendering to unconditional love. Many people have tried for many thousands of years to do this, through various forms of magic, ritual and even through practices that on the surface appear to be simple, such as stilling the mind or breath awareness--but unless a deep, FELT SENSE of well-being is present in their hearts, they are a slave to their practices and not the master of them. It is really not surprising why most people avoid speaking of self-love/compassion when it comes to subjects such as meditation, when it is understood that the human persona usually tries its darnedest to avoid it, trying as many short-cuts to well-being and enlightenment as it can. There are no "short-cuts" except through honest self-appreciation, which is your greatest power of trust, for truly loving oneself fully transcends all so-called "meditation." It has been called being a "Living Meditation."

There are quite a few adults today who have practiced meditation for 25, 30, 40 years, and yet still find themselves feeling that they need to defend their point of view. All those years of practice, but for what? I'll tell you. To eventually come to see the utter simplicity and master-practice of good old self-love! No practice can touch it (unless that practice is inspired by self-love!) There are also some people who give more importance to FEELING GOOD and self-love than to being an "expert" on meditation or any other practice, because it is a fact that your meditation experience is colored by how you generally feel. If you feel a strong need to defend rather than compliment and appreciate, then you are affirming an innate sense of vulnerability and weakness. Love is not "vulnerable" except to itself. Loving oneself is an act of invulnerability, self-trust and true meditation in the highest sense of human expression. Remember, true self-love is unconditional and all-inclusive. No one is left out of your heart! All are perceived as your brothers and sisters. Self-appreciation is you embracing YOU and ALL, through easing up and being more joyous! As Jesus wisely says in A Course in Miracles, "Would you rather be 'right' or would you rather be happy?" Self-appreciation, self-love, is truly the Tao of happiness, and nothing less.

Hi Mate .

I am all for self-appreciation, self love but how would you say an Individual gets within that zone If they do not love thy self .

What Is here right now for that Individual In that respect Is none of the above .

How does one dissolve self hate for example?

x daz x
__________________
Everything under the sun is in tune,but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 29-03-2011, 12:14 PM
Simon Karlos
Posts: n/a
 
Fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by God-Like
Hi Mate .

I am all for self-appreciation, self love but how would you say an Individual gets within that zone If they do not love thy self .

What Is here right now for that Individual In that respect Is none of the above .

How does one dissolve self hate for example?

x daz x


Hi. Great questions. No one is totally devoid of self-love. It's not possible. Everyone has love for themself, in truth, and it simply needs to be practiced, which is what the article is all about: practicing self-love. Even a person with an intense degree of self-hate must still lighten up somehow (which is applying self-love, you see), and through that desire to feel better, that choice, that positive SHIFT, they are in effect practicing self-love, whether they are aware of it or not. That simple feeling of "I want to feel better" that even a depressed person would have is an expression of love in the here/now. However, the people that most resonate with my article are already well on the path of self-love, and it was for them that the article was written for (which was for "confirmation"), and for anyone who is vibrationally drawn to it. It's clearly not a how-to article. I simply gave the ground floor, which is all that is needed. For those interested in specific exercises for practicing feeling good, I've given quite a few of them already in other threads of mine. This article for the most part was written as positive support for those who are already consciously practicing self-appreciation, you see.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 29-03-2011, 12:42 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,874
  God-Like's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Karlos
Hi. Great questions. No one is totally devoid of self-love. It's not possible. Everyone has love for themself, in truth, and it simply needs to be practiced, which is what the article is all about: practicing self-love. Even a person with an intense degree of self-hate must still lighten up somehow (which is applying self-love, you see), and through that desire to feel better, that choice, that positive SHIFT, they are in effect practicing self-love, whether they are aware of it or not. That simple feeling of "I want to feel better" that even a depressed person would have is an expression of love in the here/now. However, the people that most resonate with my article are already well on the path of self-love, and it was for them that the article was written for (which was for "confirmation"), and for anyone who is vibrationally drawn to it. It's clearly not a how-to article. I simply gave the ground floor, which is all that is needed. For those interested in specific exercises for practicing feeling good, I've given quite a few of them already in other threads of mine. This article for the most part was written as positive support for those who are already consciously practicing self-appreciation, you see.

Hi Si .

Thanks for your thoughts .

What hope Is there for those that are not already within such as process / practice of self love / appreciation . What would be your advise? If by what you mentioned about not practicing via meditation unless it's an exercise of unconditional love . How does an individual take there first steps from not loving their self to loving their self .

x daz x
__________________
Everything under the sun is in tune,but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums