Wicca evil?

[Amilius777]

I find nothing evil about Wicca.

Do what ye will, harm none. That is pretty much the golden rule behind every law. I find it to be easy to follow.

"Do unto others what you would want done unto you" "You reap what you sow" "Do what you will, harm none." "Treat others how you want to be treated."

Reincarnation? I believe our spirits reincarnate and choose paths and destinations with each lifetime. Nothing evil about that.

The Threefold Law: everything in the universe is three. Things come back to you in threefold, the Divine is threefold nature-trinitarian, the person is made of three parts (mind-body-spirit).

A divine masculine and divine feminine: The two major aspects of the Divine

I see nothing evil with this religion so far. They do prayers, they meditate, they light candles, sex is sacred, marriage is a sacrament, having children is encouraged, they do spells to help their energies with the energy of the universe, they shun black magic, they are only to speak good of others, ill towards others brings bad karma, etc .

I see nothing unreasonable or bad about this religion.

Wicca is evil for one simple reason. For 2000 years, a more successful religion has declared it so, in order to make it's self more successful.

I received some spam email the other day from a supermarket chain of all places, on about the origin of easter. There was absolutely no mention of the norse goddess Oestre, goddess of the moon, who would arrive to bring fertility to the land on just after the spring equinox, but there was mention of some Swedish tradition of scaring witches.

You can't overcome 2000 years of propaganda overnight.

As for the comment I read about the differences between British and American Wicca, I'm not sure that's right. Wicca is not really my thing, but to say that America has not history of 'witchcraft' is simply not true. What we call 'witchcraft' is simply shamanic practices. "Earth magic" if you like. Assigning characteristics of nature to deities or spirits, and working with nature/spirits to achieve something. All pretty standard stuff in native American culture, who are often referred to as American Indians because in prehistoric times, people moves from what we now call Asia, into what we now call America, taking their belief systems with them. The same group of people also migrated the other way. And of course you can't cover huge distances on foot over night, or without stopping to mix with other people you meet. In Britain, the Celtic influence is a strong one. The Celts came from what we now call eastern Europe and Northern Asia, so it is no surprise then that at the very core of people's beliefs' stripping away such trivialities as names of deities, or the sequences of rituals, the core beliefs are remarkably similar, as a very long time ago, even before radio, TV and internet, peoples interacted and learned from each other.

[Amilius777]

I understand your pain. I consider myself a Catholic because I believe in sacraments and rituals and mysticism. It has nothing to do with the dogmas and stuff.

But yes, there seems to be this arrogance in Christianity, mainly in America.

Bunny rabbits, Yuletide trees, wreaths, bells and whistles, candles, Nativity scene, Incarnate God, resurrection or rebirth, etc all the symbols of the holidays are pagan, pre-Christian rituals.

I think these rituals, holidays, divine forces, etc are all universal and pertain to our species and it's origin. It is our ancestral identity, our connection to the earth, our primordial roots.

Unfortunately so many people are ignorant. It really makes me angry.

But Christianity is getting a lot of bad karma in the last few decades because they never held up to their beliefs "unconditional love 'acceptance' and "forgiveness". Christianity and Islam have become the two political powers that are tearing apart the world.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Amilius777

But Christianity is getting a lot of bad karma in the last few decades because they never held up to their beliefs "unconditional love 'acceptance' and "forgiveness".

That's true, and I don't think it takes into account the huge amount of charity work done by Christians. If a few Wiccans didn't live up to their beliefs or codes, I certainly wouldn't think that represented their whole religion.

Originally Posted by Amilius777

Bunny rabbits, Yuletide trees, wreaths, bells and whistles, candles, Nativity scene, Incarnate God, resurrection or rebirth, etc all the symbols of the holidays are pagan, pre-Christian rituals.

I think these rituals, holidays, divine forces, etc are all universal and pertain to our species and it's origin. It is our ancestral identity, our connection to the earth, our primordial roots.

I agree. Its because they all represent observations of nature.

But Christianity is getting a lot of bad karma in the last few decades because they never held up to their beliefs "unconditional love 'acceptance' and "forgiveness". Christianity and Islam have become the two political powers that are tearing apart the world.

Christianity stands up to its claims of unconditional love and acceptance and all. Unfortunately the same can not be said of many of those, past and present, that call themselves Christians. I've read the bible from cover to cover, and I can't remember seeing anything in there that says its ok for people to pass judgement on other people. It is not even ok to judge someone for committing a 'sin', because in Christianity, its for god to pass that judgement, not someone's fellow man.

In the vain, while I see your point about Christianity and Islam, I don't think it is either (or both) that is tearing the world apart. Both religions largely teach peace and tolerance. Unfortunately some manipulate things to suit their own goals. I.e. they use the backing of the prominent religion to support their politics. In the classic example, we hear on via the media that Muslims think that people who are not Muslim are heathen infidels and the enemy. From what I can gather having researched it myself, Islam doesn't teach that 'heathens' are the enemy, it just teaches that we don't yet know any better but that we are all still brothers and sisters. Much like Christianity teaches. But it wont stop factions from either 'side' from deliberately misinterpreting the scriptures of their respective religions, in order to manipulate the masses into supporting whatever political initiative they have in mind.

many symbols, rituals and even clothing, especially in the catholic church comes from the pagans.

i think the reason so many are leaving the church is because it's just not doing it for them anymore. churches need to get rid of the bells and whistles, stop preaching and start doing. it's hard to find a church that actually teaches what jesus wanted us to know. and that was very simple.

Originally Posted by Badger1777

Wicca is evil for one simple reason. For 2000 years, a more successful religion has declared it so, in order to make it's self more successful.

The basics of Wicca were about long before the religion to which you refer, and which was a commercial organisation established to give Rome an additional arm of control in administering its empire. That religion didn't supersede Wicca or any other religion because it was "better" or more successful as a religion but because it branded everything else heretic for which there was severe punishment. Very nasty that but I appreciate your irony!

You can't overcome 2000 years of propaganda overnight.

You can say that again!!

[Amilius777]

You could say that these things work in cycles.

One of things about pre-Christian pagans ideas is that they were even believed by Jesus himself who was a Jewish prophet. A lot of his ideas sound "pagan" because pagan simply means "Earth dweller".

In that case everyone by birth is a pagan. Jesus had no problem with other people's beliefs, opinions, etc. Heck he even called the Divine, "My Father". He had a personal connection to the Divine but in no way does "The Father" designate a personal god. The Father is like talking about the Greek fathers on "The All" "The Supreme" "The Universal" and much of the pagan world DID believe in a single, unified, transcendent thing but they didn't label it, instead it had to intervene as gods and angels.

I feel like in some ways the pagan world of Rome misused it's power and their religion and ideas became more and more man made. They turned Caesar Augustus into the Son of God and Lord of the World. And the Jews and Jesus were against this, trying to stop the imperialism and violence.

What was wonderful is that the Gentile world combined their old traditions and the wisdom teachings of Jesus and created a very mystical religion called "Catholicism" or "universalism". It started off as a wisdom tradition even when Constantine created the creeds.

But look what happened afterward, Christianity made the same mistake as the imperial pagan nations, they turned their Teacher into a God, an absolute Ruler, and a deity you had to beg for forgiveness, and his physical representation was no longer the Emperor, it became the Pope and Bishops who held connection to this "invisible" demigod called Jesus.

I still identify as a Catholic in a mystical sense, but here in lies the Karmic cycle of western civilization.