Free will vs Pre-determined

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Thanks for you reply. I asked because I wondered if your assertion [1] was based on your affiliation to a system of beliefs, or on your personal experience in altered states of consciousness (regression, channeling, meditation, prayer, obe, ...).

I understand that Elohim is "a name for God used frequently in the Hebrew Bible" (google says). I don't know who Schenara is.

OK, to make myself understood, I go a little further. If it is of no interest, just ignore it.
Within the One, there are three lines of Service, The Fae, who hold everything that is physical in balance,
The Angelic, who are the link between creation and manifestation, as well as assisting any entity or/and being on their path from source and back.
Then there are the Elohim or as I call them the master builders, who build anything that is physical.

They are very different than the Fae and the Angelic.

The Fae and the Angelic evolve from a basic energy stream out of their respective Realm into an entity or being. The Elohim come direct from Source fully evolved, and move through the densities at will, even so it is more an intent, but we tend to use the word will mostly.
On a side note, and not part of the three lines of service is the Divic energy stream, which transmits the intent of the Creator or Creative force through out the verses or creative field, sphere.
Schenara is one of the "Master builders" as well as
Scheram nala The latter I know for eons, we almost always work together, where ever we are in this (uni)verse.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

OK, to make myself understood, I go a little further. If it is of no interest, just ignore it.
Within the One, there are three lines of Service, The Fae, who hold everything that is physical in balance,
The Angelic, who are the link between creation and manifestation, as well as assisting any entity or/and being on their path from source and back.
Then there are the Elohim or as I call them the master builders, who build anything that is physical.

They are very different than the Fae and the Angelic.

The Fae and the Angelic evolve from a basic energy stream out of their respective Realm into an entity or being. The Elohim come direct from Source fully evolved, and move through the densities at will, even so it is more an intent, but we tend to use the word will mostly.
On a side note, and not part of the three lines of service is the Divic energy stream, which transmits the intent of the Creator or Creative force through out the verses or creative field, sphere.
Schenara is one of the "Master builders" as well as
Scheram nala The latter I know for eons, we almost always work together, where ever we are in this (uni)verse.

Thanks. How do you call your system of beliefs. I am not familiar with it, at all.

[soulfulmusing]

After putting across this question, I went through various religious as well as philosophical translations to find the answer as well as took a look back at my own life and experiences. And from receiving these replies here, I think each one of us is experiencing life differently here. It's hard to fully know what exactly it is - but I have reached to a perspective which is resonating with me.

The world works on Karma as well as free-will.

According to law of Karma, our birth, death, family and relationships are pre-determined. We cannot control our birth or death. There is no free-will in that.

Now, our actions here are dependent on free-will. But that free-will is very limited due to the conditioning, beliefs and thought patters that have evolved in our psyche due to thousands years of evolution. So, even if we think we are doing something out of free-will, it is very much possible that it was already conditioned in our mind. So, in a way, we are controlled by the nature but it can be overcome. We can say free will exists where options exist but it's hard to determine how much free will we are actually exercising without being controlled by the nature.

When we are in the state of enlightenment, we are beyond free-will and law of karma. We are in the moment, existing in complete freedom.

Free will vs Pre-determined.............

Humm,interesting.In my experience,i think that I wrote about it somewhere before on this forum,You go about your life as usual then all of a sudden coincidences (I don't believe in coincidences) steer you onto the right path which you should be following.It certainly was the case in my life so farFrom living a life of constant partying in London to returning to my mother and caring for her in the final years of her life,to studying spirituality in a deep way when she passed,seeing mediums past life regressionists etc.Doing all this has cleared my mind of all past anxieties etc.I Now know my path going forward.All of this surely wasn't a coincidence.

QUOTE=inavalan

I believe that in the physical Universe "all events, including human action, are" not "ultimately determined by causes regarded as external to the will".

One theory that comes about to make sense of the implications of general relativity is that all events simply exist in a yuuuuge/infinite multidimensional matrix of cause and effect called the block universe (which is similar to the concept of the Akashic records), i.e. that fixed infinite menu I was alluding to. This is not just what did and will happen, but all that could have and could yet happen. Free will then becomes a matter of which path through this matrix consciousness explores. Spacetime becomes the distance (the interval) that consciousness creates to separate cause from effect as it seeks to understand the relationships between them. There are many clues that point this way, IMO, in much of modern physics.

After that serendipitous occurrence, I asked my inner guide how did it happen, and I was "told" that it was an example of changing the past to fit the present. Surely, other people might come with other explanations, but I trust my inner guide over anybody else.

That is a reasonable thing to trust. If you google and study the latter versions of the double slit experiment, including the delayed choice, and delayed choice with quantum eraser, I think you will see that rearranging the past to fit the present is a basic fundamental working of the physical universe.

Also, I brought the dream reality in discussion, because as we know that we are awake in this awake reality, in the same degree when we have a regular non-lucid dream we know that we are awake in that awake reality (which we think of as "dream reality"). I don't think that anybody can prove in any way that this reality is more "awake" than that reality. I guess, from our awake perspective we don't think that the dream reality is deterministic, as we might think of the awake / physical reality to be.

I expect that the two states are just two of many different states that consciousness can ..enter into?.., trance another. In both states, consciousness is creating the reality it experiences within itself. I think the awake state differs in that the reality is co-created with other souls/consciousnesses and therefore, unless it wants to get the boot, it can’t just go creating whatever it wants like it could in the dream state. One can create a reality in which they can fly, but they can’t force other consciousnesses to accept that reality and they might see you drop, fall, and perhaps die. I expect the key to “staying with the group” is to collapse the quantum wave in one of the more probable outcomes. Generally the first or second capture the majority of the probability distribution (see Feynman diagrams) so maybe most quantumly entangled consciousness would be able to select one of those without becoming disentangled with the larger entangled group quantum reality. So, we put limitations on our freedom to create any reality due to our will to share a reality with others and it becomes a ‘matter of co-creation’ (pun intended).

Of course all the others are doing the same, so as this group of explorers wonders about the cause and effect matrix it stumbles across (realizes - makes real and experiences) some effects that are beautiful, and some effects that are downright terrifying and ugly. Perhaps learning how to create as a group is one of the reasons why consciousness enters this plane of reality. If the group can learn to work together and act as one unit, then it can perhaps avoid creating most of those ugly realities. You might think of life as a ropes course for you and 7.5 billion of your best soul buds.

Of course I expect it is much more complex and nuanced then all that above mumbo jumbo, but that is one rough sketch that makes sense to me.
.

[John32241]

Originally Posted by soulfulmusing

Now, our actions here are dependent on free-will. But that free-will is very limited due to the conditioning, beliefs and thought patters that have evolved in our psyche due to thousands years of evolution. So, even if we think we are doing something out of free-will, it is very much possible that it was already conditioned in our mind. So, in a way, we are controlled by the nature but it can be overcome. We can say free will exists where options exist but it's hard to determine how much free will we are actually exercising without being controlled by the nature.

When we are in the state of enlightenment, we are beyond free-will and law of karma. We are in the moment, existing in complete freedom.

Hi,

My understaning is that free will is more like a choice of perception. That being a love centered or fear sponsered choice of thoughts.

My friend did a video on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HCw...1MjGUjRvJYJ_CE

I like how this presentation was done.

John

[hallow]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Can the universe we experience be fully deterministic and yet we can have free will at the same time?

Of course, think of it like this for example. It's predetermined you have to be to work at 9am. But there's 100 ways to get there, or if you wake up on time, eat breakfast or not, or even what your going too wear if anything at all. It's even an option weather you go or not. Each one of those things are going to affect your 9am

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by John32241

Hi,

My understaning is that free will is more like a choice of perception. That being a love centered or fear sponsered choice of thoughts.

My friend did a video on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HCw...1MjGUjRvJYJ_CE

I like how this presentation was done.

John

***

Thanks for the video link John. Well presented, although perhaps she could have elaborated a bit more. Still, great!

***

[linen53]

Originally Posted by hallow

Of course, think of it like this for example. It's predetermined you have to be to work at 9am. But there's 100 ways to get there, or if you wake up on time, eat breakfast or not, or even what your going too wear if anything at all. It's even an option weather you go or not. Each one of those things are going to affect your 9am

A good example!

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by hallow

Of course, think of it like this for example. It's predetermined you have to be to work at 9am. But there's 100 ways to get there, or if you wake up on time, eat breakfast or not, or even what your going too wear if anything at all. It's even an option weather you go or not. Each one of those things are going to affect your 9am

I 'd say that it is your free-willed decision to go to work at 9 am.