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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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  #21  
Old 31-08-2012, 06:04 AM
Amilius777 Amilius777 is offline
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Hi everyone. I am back after a long absence of discovering my OWN beliefs and digging deeper into the ideologies in the world.

First off. A response to above.

The only Begotten Son of God is not the Christ Consciousness. If you actually read the Bible and did away with Yogananda's interpretation like I did (because I used to have faith in Yogananda), you will realize the "context" of that verse.

Yes the Bible says we are all "gods" and sons of God. But the Bible clearly states Jesus as the only "BEGOTTEN" Son of God or the Firstborn Son of God. Begotten? This refers to Jesus' incarnation and direct conception by God through the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the only son or "soul" directly projected into matter by God's will alone in the womb of an immaculately conceived Mother. Jesus is both born of God's will, and born of a pure vessel without "sin" or error, Mary- thus the only begotten son.

Later at the Baptism 30 years later, Jesus receives the "fullness" of the Holy Ghost as the Spirit descends upon him and is anointed or "Christened" by John the Baptist. Jesus full of the Holy Spirit? Holy Ghost is referred to as the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter, and the Presence of God within. The Holy Spirit is what some now call the Christ Consciousness or Christ Energy. Jesus was born with that inner consciousness because of his immaculate conception and the ego-less ability to grasp oneness with God and Jesus became that spirit or consciousness at his baptism.

The only time the Bible has ANY reference to a "Cosmic" or "Universal Christ" in the way Yogananda talks about is in John's opening Gospel. The Word or Logos is the "divine wisdom" or "divine mind" Thus John's Gospel opens with in the beginning was The Christ and the Christ was with God and the Christ was God. And that Christ became flesh or a "man" and dwelt among us. This is a SIGNIFICANT event that does NOT always happen cyclically as Yogananda is explaining. The Christ is seen in John's Gospel as a Universal creative power or God's Mind which purposely creates everything and does everything in accordance to the will of God. It is "God the Son or Logos" which patterns everything after God the Father's intentions. So if the Christ is seen as the Logos in John's Gospel, the Maker of all things, and the Spirit in the Old Testament which guides the Jewish People then it is safe to assume that Jesus' incarnation is one of a kind because the Jewish Authorities thought the prophets were foreseeing the messiah as a king and prophet with the Holy Spirit who would rule the world. Instead the Messiah was "God incarnate"- the Universal Christ who pitched his tent and dwelling the womb of Mary as the soul of Jesus. God as the Christ Spirit humbled Itself in the form of Man, and a Man was divinized to the stature of God- that is what we see in Jesus. And that is why so many people were angry with him and are still jealous of him. Because everyone wants to be God.

The Bible does not talk about "going back to God" as if matter and the physical earth were an evil place to be. If anything Jesus talks about the purpose of life is to fulfill righteousness.- to do the right thing. He never talks about the deification of the human race as the Yogis speak of. He says we are already gods or immortal spirits in human form. We are to be gods in Heaven. And when the Book of Revelation says- "I shall make thee a pillar in the Temple of God and you shall go out no more". Thus we have never fallen from God. This idea should be thrown out the window. We don't "invoke God and his angels". God is already with us and so are the angels. We have not fallen, we have forgotten through our earthly sojourn and create disharmony or discord between us and God. Thus we regress and have to come back as many times as we think we need to get it right. Jesus' incarnation was for the souls who keep coming back to find a way out of regression or rebirth. Jesus shows this by being obedient to the will of God and in doing so Jesus was harmonious with all creation, mankind, and God. And Jesus never lost anything, not even in death. All was given to him even in the painful trial of crucifixion did not delude his consciousness from God.

So when I hear that Jesus was merely some vessel or historical dude who possessed some higher consciousness I sorta rip the hairs out of my head. I go along with C.S. Lewis. To say he is a moral or spiritual teacher is wrong. Whether you believe Jesus never existed and was nobody or he really was who he said he was, The Messiah or Christ. There can be no in between. Why? Because a man who claimed to represent God on earth has too much at stake. The only options are- he was a crazy lunatic obsessed with self-proclaimed godhood, or he never existed, or he truly was The Son of God.
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  #22  
Old 31-08-2012, 10:12 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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Jesus is called, "The Son", and, "The Son of Man", only because of the incarnation into this material world and level..

He always existed in Unity with the Creator God, and, "Father", as, "The Word", though which all things, were/ are, manifest.

Daniel 7:13
‘In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven.
He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.
He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.’
(Daniel 7:13-14)
http://www.bethinking.org/bible-jesus/introductory/jesus-the-son-of-man.htm

‘At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.’
(Matthew 24:30)

Why will the tribes of the earth mourn at His appearance?
because, they are willful, stifnecked, disingenuine, and full of egoic rebellion.
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  #23  
Old 31-08-2012, 11:44 PM
Newfreedom9
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There is a lot of evidence that suggests that Jesus is not the WORD talked about in the Bible, although that is a popular teaching. In Buddhist teaching the Word of creation is Om (Pronounced like the beginning of Amen). In other Anchient scripture Amenti is what is referred to. In the Bible Amen appears regularly, like in Revelation 3:14 it says: "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;" This would support the theory that Amen is the Word of God, the beginning of creation.

I'll admit that this will only make sense if you're open minded and willing to look at scriptures outside the Bible, science and basic facts. To anyone who wants to believe everything they've been taught in church, this is not for you. But from what I can tell the Bible is not literal, and Jesus (the person) is not the Word, nor could he be. The Word, is a word. lol, one of few things I take literally in the old testament.
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  #24  
Old 02-09-2012, 05:49 PM
Morpheus Morpheus is offline
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Amilius:
Quote:
We have not fallen, we have forgotten through our earthly sojourn and create disharmony or discord between us and God.
Quote:
Thus we regress and have to come back as many times as we think we need to get it right. Jesus' incarnation was for the souls who keep coming back to find a way out of regression or rebirth.
Jesus shows this by being obedient to the will of God and in doing so Jesus was harmonious with all creation, mankind, and God. And Jesus never lost anything, not even in death. All was given to him even in the painful trial of crucifixion did not delude his consciousness from God.

So when I hear that Jesus was merely some vessel or historical dude who possessed some higher consciousness I sorta rip the hairs out of my head. I go along with C.S. Lewis. To say he is a moral or spiritual teacher is wrong. Whether you believe Jesus never existed and was nobody or he really was who he said he was, The Messiah or Christ. There can be no in between. Why? Because a man who claimed to represent God on earth has too much at stake. The only options are- he was a crazy lunatic obsessed with self-proclaimed godhood, or he never existed, or he truly was The Son of God.


Amilius, consider the below webpage, and that time and space, Evolution therein, is a result of a "Fall".
The organic realm and aspects, along with the Survival Instinct thereof, which is to be equated with, "The Devil", and satan, and,
is the prime cause of all the war, crime and affliction in, "The World".

http://www.angelsghosts.com/angels_what_are_they.html


You'll have to highlight some of the text to read it. Poor coloring.
Consider Jesus' parable about the Shepherd leaving the 99 sheep, to search out the lost.
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"I believe there are two sides to the phenomena known as death. This side where we live, and the other side, where we shall continue to live.
Eternity does not start with death.
We are in eternity now." - Norman Vincent Peale

"There is no place in this new kind of physics for both the field and matter, for the field is the only reality." - A. Einstein
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  #25  
Old 02-09-2012, 08:58 PM
Newfreedom9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheus

The Bible tells us that the material universe was spoken into existance by God, and, through the Word of God, which of course involves frequency vibration, and resonance.
This is all about, Light, and Sound, and also, Temperature.
One may consider their own larnyx, or voicebox.
Or, the microwave.

That also, the material universe is sustained by His Word.

Jesus is that Word, who became incarnate as one of us, but without sin, which situation had been long prophesied through the ages of Biblical writings;
which are each dated regarding origins by the various scholars, and, which are confirmed by archaeological finds, also. Such as with the Dead Sea Scrolls.


I agree with the first part of this post, it actually supports the point I was making. That the Word is vibration, not a physical person. Why do you think Jesus is the Word? The scripture you listed does not validate your claim that Jesus is the Word. I believed it for a long time too because it was taught to me for so long in church and school. But I have not found scripture to support it, and when I started looking for evidence, it all pointed to this being an incorrect deduction. You seem like an extremely intelligent and open minded guy, so I'd like to ask you if you have found scripture or something else to support this claim. If so would you please share it?
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  #26  
Old 02-09-2012, 09:33 PM
Amilius777 Amilius777 is offline
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Okay.

First off. The Word-

This is a poorly translated version of "The One" or The Logos in Greek. The Logos is the divine rational principle in the universe. This divine reason or Mind created everything we see by changing the rate of it's vibration. This Logos is the Universal Christ which is the Mind of God or The Only Son of God. And that Word/Logos/ Christ was incarnate in the body of Jesus.

When Jesus referred to himself as the Son of God, he meant his soul's oneness with the Universal Christ or Mind of God in creation.

When Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man, he meant his soul circumscribed to the human body and personality that needed to be lifted up or returned.

And Morpheous on Fallen Angels-

Jesus was a 1st Century Jew who was very well versed in the Torah and even lost books of the Old Testament. One of these is Enoch which Jesus makes references to- actually a lot! And Enoch paints the fallen angels as evil spirits who are stuck in the earth plane who followed their leader "Samzaya" or "Satan". Jesus refers to Satan as a personal being who is on the Other Side along with his own organization of angels who test souls and hold us up against karmic law unlike the angels of light. And Jesus refers to Satan as a cooperative influence and consciousness that can be in us all like his reference to Peter as a satan.
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  #27  
Old 03-09-2012, 02:06 AM
Newfreedom9
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Okay, that was very interesting. I had already pretty much discovered this bit
"When Jesus referred to himself as the Son of God, he meant his soul's oneness with the Universal Christ or Mind of God in creation." However I didn't put it together that the Christ consciousness might also be the Word. I'll have to look into that more. Interesting concept.
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  #28  
Old 03-09-2012, 04:58 AM
Amilius777 Amilius777 is offline
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The Christ Consciousness or Christ Spirit is the Word in John's Gospel.

When Jesus said- "Abide in my word!" The original translation comes from Jesus saying- "Abide in my Logos" which is "Abide in my Christ Consciousness".

Jesus even says- "There are Three that bear record in heaven- The Father, Word, and the Spirit". The Word is said by Jesus himself to be the Son! Because he says later- "Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). The Word or Logos is the universal consciousness or Mind of God which obeys every command the Father (whole of God) wills. And that Mind was manifested in Jesus and when Jesus worked by his inner divine will, it was the unified will of the Son (Universal Christ) and the Father (God Himself). That is why Jesus could claim to be the only Son of God because that Mind and Power (Christ) was able to incarnate in the body and individual consciousness of Jesus because of the Virgin Mary's acceptance and conception of her son. The Virgin mother herself was born purely from an immaculate state of divine grace which means her consciousness from birth transcended the normal human consciousness. She was a pure or advanced soul from Heaven. And that allowed the Christ Consciousness in all it's fullness to incarnate as a human person.

Do you realize how unique and magnificent Jesus' incarnation was? Buddha may have attained enlightenment towards that Consciousness and even experienced that spirit in his meditations. Moses also contacted that divine presence but struggled to maintain it's energy because he struggled in the house of the Lord as the Apostles say but Jesus was master over the house of the Lord. Jesus' incarnation is special because the Only Son of God or Christ Spirit was a guiding force and Angelic presence that uplifted Israel and even manifested in the consciousnesses of the Prophets. But to say that Part of God to become a fully realized and personal human was blasphemy for the Jews. That is why the Pharisees wanted Jesus dead. Because he was the only soul that was able to claim identity with that part of the Godhead thus claiming equality with God while being an ordinary human being under time and space.


I forgot to mention about the angels. The Bible DOES refer to humanity like a "fallen angel". Jesus calls himself the morning star in the Book of Revelations. The Bible also makes a distinct difference between an "Angel or Archangel" and a human soul especially in the Book of Enoch and Revelations. The human soul is "like" a fallen angel who has descended into matter to experience this world separated from God. Thus the human person is born through the state of original sin because we are born out of the womb. As human animals we are subjected to the dualities of nature and change. The state of original sin is a happy fault for all souls in matter because it allows the soul to be tested and to experience and to evolve into your own unique Divinity!

Now the Angels and Archangels as God's messengers are an entirely different entity and being. They operate in "Group Minds" or Choirs and each in their own ranking. The forces of Light have their own hierarchy and governance over the cosmos and creation with Archangels on top. And the forces of Darkness have their own mimicked hierarchy caught in their own Collective Consciousness of Evil called "The Devil" in lower realms (hell) with their leader Satan or Lucifer who began the separation from Light.
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  #29  
Old 10-09-2012, 09:25 PM
Love Wisdom Truth Love Wisdom Truth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amilius777
The knowledge of Babaji is growing.
....................
According to the Eastern Mystics, Jesus Christ and Babaji are the only two souls to ever be called "mahavatar". Which means great incarnation. They are both fully identified with the Christ Consciousness. Filled with the Divine Love.
........................

And my avatar on here is Babaji

Well that can be disputable. Obviously they have not heard of Beinsa Douno/Peter Deunov.
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  #30  
Old 12-09-2012, 04:59 PM
Amilius777 Amilius777 is offline
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I DON"T BELIEVE IN BABAJI anymore.

Everybody. Go to Google and put in SRF BlACKLISTED>

You find tons of accounts and complaints about Yogananda and the SRF. Some of them are legal documents and stories from other contemporaries and even the Vedanta's Society's criticism of Yogananda.

I was duped for two years on this junk. I don't buy it anymore. In fact I don't buy a lot of Eastern Mysticism anymore. They think they have the answers. They don't. The only answers lie in your self and the example of Jesus.

To be quite clear this whole stuff on "Christ consciousness" and the new age movement hasn't answered anything for me. I was brought up Catholic and it seems like it didn't make much of a difference going after new age gurus. I realized the simplicity of spirituality and everyday life.

Your conscience tells you right from wrong. The conscience is the gift of God to the soul. It is our free will and the part of God in all of us. When you meditate at night and visualize the conscience as a small orb speaking to you, you will realize it is your own voice and thoughts telling you all things positive and loving. This is you and the God-part. It guides you and the more you develop it the more it becomes a consciousness or what some call "The Christ consciousness"- an awareness of complete love of self, others, and God. I guess this is the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus describes that is within us. I guess once the souls on earth evolve towards this consciousness we will be able to establish a new era and age which will allow the Christ Himself to return. This is not about self-deification. It is about your mind or state of mind evolving. The Soul does NOT evolve. I have come to this conclusion. Your mind evolves either towards harmony with the universe and others or towards oblivion. The soul is forever a soul created by God and is not going to be God as the new age and the East claim. I still need to see proof of this idea of "Deification" that the New Age and Hinduism is obsessed with. I have seen proof of karma in my everyday life and I have seen proof of reincarnation but I still want to see proof of this Godhood stuff.

Enlightenment is another misinterpreted idea. I have never seen anyone have an "enlightenment". They only talk about people attaining enlightenment- "Buddha" as example. But to be honest all Buddha did was go from one state of mind to another and realized how to be compassionate and loving. And from that he became a channel of this Christ consciousness I was talking about. I don't think people who are enlightened all a sudden become saints with spiritual powers. I believe in such things because I have witnessed things in my own life but it doesn't mean the person is a divine being or avatar. Its ridiculous. I know people with all sorts of gifts of clairvoyance, healing, medium-ship, discernment of spirits and energy, and the list goes on. But these people are human and have faults. They are not 'perfect avatars". Such an idea has its arguments.

I honestly believe Jesus, besides being the Son of God who incarnated to save the world, as a Man for the small 30 years he lived, fully cultivated his conscience into a state of mind (Christ) in which he had unconditional love to others and God and was the only one who could go through the trial of the Cross (which the ancients saw all the back to Egyptian oracles) and open up that gate to immortality (aka eternity in Heaven).

Thats my simplistic belief now.
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