When there is no balance to suffering...

[Dargor]

First of all, I have no use for your pity. So pwease *puppy eyes* keep it to yourself. And in the name of allfather Odin and the very foundations of Asgard itself, be a little bit more creative than bringing karma into it because I don't believe in karma. I'll say what quite a lot of you are eager to hear; I'm not a good person. But the fact is, there are people out there that make me look like the holy virgin Mary, yet they get away with everything they do. That's enough evidence for me that karma isn't real.

Now to get to the core: they say life is all about growing, learning life lessons, and to love yourself and as well others. That's even what a huge majority of NDEs talk about. But I really have certain issues with that. For one, yes I agree that suffering is necessary to a point so that you develop a better personality and be more kind and helpful to others. However, as everything should be perfectly balanced, so should the amount of suffering one soul is forced to undergo. When one's endless agony and suffering in life goes beyond the limit that is necessary, you'll become cold, emotionless, bitter, and apathetic. I know that because I'm one of those abominations. If there was something for me to learn from all this nonsense, well then I have either failed or simply learned the 'wrong' things. This is a good example of cause and effect. A disruption of balance and the severe concequences that it brings. Should there indeed be a higher force involved with our lives, then this thing many of you call God is evil beyond human comprehension. If there was a devil, even he'd be like: ''woah, chill out dude''. There truly is no word for this kind of unspeakable evil.

So now my simple question that I want to ask: what is the point of suffering if it goes beyond the necessary limits and brings the opposite results that God, angels, higher self, (or whatever floats your boat) was hoping for? Because I see it as totally pointless. I'm also aware that I contradict myself as a self-proclaimed atheist with this thread, but that doesn't stop me from asking this question to see what kind of logic spiritual people come up with. Because maybe, just maybe, there is a very tiny less than 1% chance that you'll prove me wrong. Unfortunately, one of my biggest curses in this life is that I never appear to be wrong. As fun as it sounds, it isn't. Trust me with that.

[JosephineB]

..........

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

First of all, I have no use for your pity. So pwease *puppy eyes* keep it to yourself. And in the name of allfather Odin and the very foundations of Asgard itself, be a little bit more creative than bringing karma into it because I don't believe in karma. I'll say what quite a lot of you are eager to hear; I'm not a good person. But the fact is, there are people out there that make me look like the holy virgin Mary, yet they get away with everything they do. That's enough evidence for me that karma isn't real.

Now to get to the core: they say life is all about growing, learning life lessons, and to love yourself and as well others. That's even what a huge majority of NDEs talk about. But I really have certain issues with that. For one, yes I agree that suffering is necessary to a point so that you develop a better personality and be more kind and helpful to others. However, as everything should be perfectly balanced, so should the amount of suffering one soul is forced to undergo. When one's endless agony and suffering in life goes beyond the limit that is necessary, you'll become cold, emotionless, bitter, and apathetic. I know that because I'm one of those abominations. If there was something for me to learn from all this nonsense, well then I have either failed or simply learned the 'wrong' things. This is a good example of cause and effect. A disruption of balance and the severe concequences that it brings. Should there indeed be a higher force involved with our lives, then this thing many of you call God is evil beyond human comprehension. If there was a devil, even he'd be like: ''woah, chill out dude''. There truly is no word for this kind of unspeakable evil.

So now my simple question that I want to ask: what is the point of suffering if it goes beyond the necessary limits and brings the opposite results that God, angels, higher self, (or whatever floats your boat) was hoping for? Because I see it as totally pointless. I'm also aware that I contradict myself as a self-proclaimed atheist with this thread, but that doesn't stop me from asking this question to see what kind of logic spiritual people come up with. Because maybe, just maybe, there is a very tiny less than 1% chance that you'll prove me wrong. Unfortunately, one of my biggest curses in this life is that I never appear to be wrong. As fun as it sounds, it isn't. Trust me with that.

Please forgive me...I am never wrong either, so I know exactly how that feels...yep, a laugh a minute (end sarcasm).

I notice your age, Slayer...you are 27...that is half of my age.... you are also going through a "Saturn Return".

https://www.thecut.com/article/every...rn-return.html

Now, before you ask "what has age gotta do?" I was a totally different person at 27 to how I am now...my beliefs were all different, my whole outlook on life was totally different.

Like you, I became one of those "heartless abominations" a few years ago when a spiritual (kundalini) awakening went south...plunging me headfirst and headlong into an abyss of nihilistic apathy....oh wow, this whole "bliss and love" thing is terribly overrated, what?

Thing is, that this is an experience I need to claw my way back from...I simply overshot the mark here and I realise, as distasteful as it sounds to my misanthropic bent, I need to start settling for less to actually get more than what I settled for.

I realise that my journey is in no way over...and to reach the heart, I need to engage it somehow...which does not include denying my feelings because they are not useful, yet always wondering why I cannot feel anything...like duh!

About Karma...that goes along with Reincarnation, because without the concept of Reincarnation, Karma makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Those who make you look like Mother Theresa in this lifetime, were probably falsely imprisoned last lifetime, or have agreed to be killed by a mass murder in their next one...make sense now?

You won't get puppy eyes here, but on the flip of that, does it serve you closing your heart off so it won't get hurt? Cause you can't feel anything good either...so, is it really worth it?

Personally, I don't think so, because I am tired of living like a Zombie...one of the "walking dead" yet I realise how much effort is required to get me out of this hole...climbing Mt. Everest would be comparable to the journey ahead of me now because I didn't leave the hell alone when I should have.

Maybe it will take 5-10 years before my Thousand Petalled Lotus blooms and I find the jewel within...maybe you will find someone who will love you for who you are and all the pieces will fall into place...who knows?

Only time is gonna tell for both of us.

[Dargor]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Please forgive me...I am never wrong either, so I know exactly how that feels...yep, a laugh a minute (end sarcasm).

I notice your age, Slayer...you are 27...that is half of my age.... you are also going through a "Saturn Return".

https://www.thecut.com/article/every...rn-return.html

Now, before you ask "what has age gotta do?" I was a totally different person at 27 to how I am now...my beliefs were all different, my whole outlook on life was totally different.

Like you, I became one of those "heartless abominations" a few years ago when a spiritual (kundalini) awakening went south...plunging me headfirst and headlong into an abyss of nihilistic apathy....oh wow, this whole "bliss and love" thing is terribly overrated, what?

Thing is, that this is an experience I need to claw my way back from...I simply overshot the mark here and I realise, as distasteful as it sounds to my misanthropic bent, I need to start settling for less to actually get more than what I settled for.

I realise that my journey is in no way over...and to reach the heart, I need to engage it somehow...which does not include denying my feelings because they are not useful, yet always wondering why I cannot feel anything...like duh!

About Karma...that goes along with Reincarnation, because without the concept of Reincarnation, Karma makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Those who make you look like Mother Theresa in this lifetime, were probably falsely imprisoned last lifetime, or have agreed to be killed by a mass murder in their next one...make sense now?

You won't get puppy eyes here, but on the flip of that, does it serve you closing your heart off so it won't get hurt? Cause you can't feel anything good either...so, is it really worth it?

Personally, I don't think so, because I am tired of living like a Zombie...one of the "walking dead" yet I realise how much effort is required to get me out of this hole...climbing Mt. Everest would be comparable to the journey ahead of me now because I didn't leave the hell alone when I should have.

Maybe it will take 5-10 years before my Thousand Petalled Lotus blooms and I find the jewel within...maybe you will find someone who will love you for who you are and all the pieces will fall into place...who knows?

Only time is gonna tell for both of us.

I didn't willingly close off my heart, that just happened automatically as I kept hardening up through the years. I still feel some good things such as friendship and I care about my few close friends, but that's pretty much where it all ends. I'm not even going to bother anymore to try and leave this dark hole but rather embrace it because apparently that's the only thing what our dearest, kindest, loving Father who art in heaven has in store for me. If I fail at anything else, I might as well do his bidding and be the cold a.hole he wants me to be. At least then I know that the fault is not with myself to blame, just in case when I check out of this existence someday and am going to be dragged before a divine court.

As for karma and reincarnation, both of those things don't work for me. I can have so many arguments as to why karma fails even with reincarnation included, but I guess that's an interesting topic for a different thread.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

As for karma and reincarnation, both of those things don't work for me. I can have so many arguments as to why karma fails even with reincarnation included, but I guess that's an interesting topic for a different thread.

This thread is titled When there is no balance to suffering...

The issue of suffering and balance seems to be all about karma and reincarnation, so it seems very relevant to this discussion. So why do you believe that karma fails even with reincarnation included?

Peace

[Miss Hepburn]

Bi

Originally Posted by iamthat

This thread is titled When there is no balance to suffering...

The issue of suffering and balance seems to be all about karma and reincarnation, so it seems very relevant to this discussion.
So why do you believe that karma fails even with reincarnation included?

Peace

How about if you used a different term than karma?
What goes around comes around or What you sow you also reap.

I often say...If you plant corn, you don't get tomatoes.

If one only looks at this one life, boy oh boy, do things seem super unfair!
I should know because of the unending meanness of my father from the actual day I was born and he came to the hospital to the day he died.
It was sometimes cloaked in front of other people to be teasing...but
at my expense always...he had to get in a ridiculing sentence towards me even in front of others somehow.

But, I see a bigger picture now. I see why this happened...no blame on him. In fact, I thank him.
If ya don't realize we have lived before...boy, it's tough using the logic of
only the left brain.
Talk about unbalanced! Bitterness could follow you for a long time.
And the cycle would just go on and on.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by SlayerOfLight

First of all, I have no use for your pity. So pwease *puppy eyes* keep it to yourself. And in the name of allfather Odin and the very foundations of Asgard itself, be a little bit more creative than bringing karma into it because I don't believe in karma. I'll say what quite a lot of you are eager to hear; I'm not a good person. But the fact is, there are people out there that make me look like the holy virgin Mary, yet they get away with everything they do. That's enough evidence for me that karma isn't real.

Now to get to the core: they say life is all about growing, learning life lessons, and to love yourself and as well others. That's even what a huge majority of NDEs talk about. But I really have certain issues with that. For one, yes I agree that suffering is necessary to a point so that you develop a better personality and be more kind and helpful to others. However, as everything should be perfectly balanced, so should the amount of suffering one soul is forced to undergo. When one's endless agony and suffering in life goes beyond the limit that is necessary, you'll become cold, emotionless, bitter, and apathetic. I know that because I'm one of those abominations. If there was something for me to learn from all this nonsense, well then I have either failed or simply learned the 'wrong' things. This is a good example of cause and effect. A disruption of balance and the severe concequences that it brings. Should there indeed be a higher force involved with our lives, then this thing many of you call God is evil beyond human comprehension. If there was a devil, even he'd be like: ''woah, chill out dude''. There truly is no word for this kind of unspeakable evil.

So now my simple question that I want to ask: what is the point of suffering if it goes beyond the necessary limits and brings the opposite results that God, angels, higher self, (or whatever floats your boat) was hoping for? Because I see it as totally pointless. I'm also aware that I contradict myself as a self-proclaimed atheist with this thread, but that doesn't stop me from asking this question to see what kind of logic spiritual people come up with. Because maybe, just maybe, there is a very tiny less than 1% chance that you'll prove me wrong. Unfortunately, one of my biggest curses in this life is that I never appear to be wrong. As fun as it sounds, it isn't. Trust me with that.

If you take out all labels to what has happened, is happening, how you feel, what you’ve endured and how you see yourself as a human being, then you see yourself as you are. If your an atheist you would have to see through eyes of ‘this is how life is’. No reason other than knowing you are who you are as it is righ now.

The thing your post says out loud to me, is that you believe this is who you are, that in your being you have yet to source yourself as anything more than suffering.You are identifying yourself as this person. When your in the extreme end of suffering, you will question everything, as you show. You have no belief of yourself beyond this place where you see you are.

I wonder how you might feel letting this identity go? The mind when it’s made up, is never wrong, leads itself as that. A mind yet to open to change and possibility, where the ID becomes something entirely different to anything you can imagine right now, in this moment of your life as it is, is a mind still closed and believing their heart cannot change.

Their is no point to suffering. There is no point to having a closed heart and bitter cold being. You’ve decided you have no balance to move beyond this. Your suffering hasn’t moved you beyond it. There is no point.

What’s left is you as this person. One thing you have got is choice to choose differently. When you wake up each day you can choose to take one small step into opening your heart. You have choice to fight your own identity. You have choice to stop thinking you are this person. You have choice to change the channels.

Your stubborn and won’t change, because your trying to prove your this person and nothing is going to fix or make this be anything else.

I know because I once believed I was my suffering and nothing was going to change.

The mind will rule the heart.
The mind will rule your life.

Ps. I’m not giving you niceties, because you don’t move from this place with niceties, you move when you get big nudges and pushes.

Oh to dream I could be something else. It would take courage to let go of the person you now believe you are. Stubborn as you are, right as you may see yourself, I had to learn some hard lessons in believing I didn’t like being wrong. The bridge from one side to the other requires conscious choice. The nudges and pushes still require us to make that choice to change everything we believe.

You don’t wait for balance, or a magic wand, you become it yourself, you choose. You don’t sit and play the victim, you have to let the victim go, yes you are the judge and jury of yourself. You are the creator within your pain and suffering.

So what are you creating? And how’s it working for you ? Courage under fire, bridges attitude and enthusiasm, bridges energy and motivation to want more for yourself.


: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference.

In the end when the only reason for suffering is for you yourself to see you want more for yourself, that there is more to you than just what is right now, then you see you are the reason and cause. Not to what happens to you, but to overcome. You can’t control others and what they do to you. But you can control and change those things within you that have to believe they deserve differently.

Self worth, self loathing, self managed and governed..yes it’s all in you.

[inavalan]

Sorry that you feel that way. If nothing else, it's a waste.

I could share with you some of my beliefs about the points you've made in your opening post, but why should you listen to me? Or why should you listen to anybody else? How would you know who knows the truth and who fools himself? Why should you follow those who offer you stinky fish, but won't (can't) teach you fish?

So, I'll recommend the only solution I believe in, and that I follow myself:

• put aside all emotions, biases and expectations,
• deeply relax, turn inward,
• ask one question, open your mind for an answer,
• write down exactly what passes through your mind exactly as it comes,
• later meditate (think about it without rationalizing) on what you wrote down

Suffering is out of balance.

It is out of balance because people are out of balance.

Most people seem to live out of balance, so suffering increases.

This in turn seems to throw the world out of balance.

The question that I had to ask is, how do I rise above my own suffering
in an unbalanced world?

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

Suffering is out of balance.

It is out of balance because people are out of balance.

Most people seem to live out of balance, so suffering increases.

This in turn seems to throw the world out of balance.

The question that I had to ask is, how do I rise above my own suffering
in an unbalanced world?

See yourself as the world balanced from within. Then you see the world as it is.