Thoughts, Feelings, and Emotions

[Starman]

What is the difference between and emotion and a feeling? Maybe and emotion is energy in motion and a feeling is how we interact with that energy. So what I am saying here is that feelings are reactions to emotions. How we feel about emotions depends on our mood, and our mood is often determined by our attitude. In my opinion everything is connected to everything else. What do you think?

Considerations to the above might include what we now call emotional intelligence, which in my opinion is how we feel about, or react to, our emotions. Largely this type of intelligence has to do with impulse control. Although there are people who say that they don’t know how they feel, or that they feel numb.

Feeling numb, or not knowing how they feel about certain emotions, may be due to either not being in touch with those emotions, resisting certain emotions, or unable to clearly define certain emotions. But just because a person says they are emotionally conflicted or numb, does not mean that they are not reacting to the emotional conflict or numbness.

Human beings allow emotions to determine their behavior, or more correctly how we interpret and interact with our emotions often guides our behavior. Another component to this are thoughts, which in my opinion interacts with feelings. An emotion comes along and we interpret those emotions with our thoughts. Emotions are the blueprint for thoughts.

Can we have thoughts without emotions or emotions without thoughts? A person can be emotionally numb and still have thoughts, or they could be emotionally swept up without thinking. The interaction between thoughts and emotions I find interesting. This interaction often determines how we feel. When we embark on a spiritual transformation the process refines our feelings and quiets our thoughts.

The spiritual transformation effects the very cells in our physical body, it also transforms our mental and emotional bodies. As humans we are multi-dimensional beings simultaneously existing on a physical level, mental level, emotional level, and a spiritual level. Actually they are all spirit vibrating at various frequencies, creating various textures and qualities. Often it has been said that we have to travel though the mental and emotional states of being to reach our spiritual core. Spiritual maturity includes mental and emotional maturity.

I guess the next question is what does maturity mean? Is maturity a moral issue. When we talk about spiritual development are we talking about maturity? To “Know Thyself” is to know that which we are on every level. Feeling, or how we interpret stimuli, determines what we call our experience. Experience is a product of how we feel. Experience is not objective. Can we exist without experience? Experience is a matter of perception, and perception is a matter of interpretation. True clarity can come when there is no interpretation.

[Anne]

Emotions come unbidden. Grappling with emotion produces feelings.

Thought enters when deciding whether to share feelings, and here is where some wisdom or maturity is sought.

At least for me, emotional maturity is that elusive piece of the puzzle, and why I was drawn to the spiritual journey.

[Starman]

There are people who are mentally well developed, they have a high IQ, etc., but emotionally
they may be extremely underdeveloped and immature.

Just like with our chakras, we can have some chakras wide open and others barely open.
It seems to me that a person can have some spiritual development but still be emotionally
underdeveloped.

Although when we embrace spirit it does transform, mold, and shape us to its quality.
There is and innocence and a humbleness, that comes with the spiritual transformation.
And these qualities also effect us emotionally and mentally.

I find that while doing a spiritual practice, I also have to do some emotional work on
myself. Spirit helps me to gain insight into my own emotional patterns, and possibly even
where they may be coming from.

[Shivani Devi]

Dear Starman,

I suffer from a condition called Alexithymia. This means that I cannot relate to/feel emotions or express them, after years of numbness ..of just flatlining and trying to "fake it til I make it".

Occasionally, I may feel something... so subtle and fleeting, I always ask myself "what the heck was that?" and then begins all the attempts at rationalising my emotional response, as opposed to actually "feeling" it...but it has been so long since I have felt anything, I have forgotten what emotions actually feel like...yeah, strange I know.

Occasionally I will see something funny, like a cat falling into a bathtub and I will smile for a split second...feel this thing called "humour", but it pretty much goes away as soon as it starts and it just gets harder and harder for the same stimuli to produce any emotional response...so I am forever seeking out new stimulation, but that just becomes a fool's errand, my friend.

Bottom line is, that I have totally lost the connection with that part of myself...I haven't felt an emotion for SO long, I doubt if I was ever really able to feel them at all .

So I go to the doctor yesterday with anxiety, depression etc, not feeling at ALL "sad" or "anxious", but I have lost all interest in life and now it is causing the psychosomatic symptoms all over my body to worsen...sometimes it gets to the point where I cannot even walk...paralysed from the waist down for days, until I spend hours massaging my legs, using hot/cold packs just to get sensation back in them again..I also get non epileptic seizures..I feel so choked up that swallowing and talking becomes very difficult... occasionally I will pass out..my balance is screwed up...oh yes, I have been to MANY doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, neurologists, neuropsychiatrists...their unanimous diagnosis? CONVERSION DISORDER in the DSM IV, which is now called FUNCTIONAL NEUROLOGICAL DISORDER or SOMATIZATION DISORDER with accompanying DYSTONIA and DYSAUTONOMIA in DSM V the cause of it all? Being unable to feel/process any of my emotions, so my body does it in the form of totally shutting down completely..and yes, it can even be fatal.

So, I go to my GP yesterday after a week of tingling in my legs, numbness in my toes, muscle spasms, unsteady gait, balance problems, ringing in my ears, vertigo, difficulty catching my breath with a "oh lord..please don't let this get full-blown again... don't want to get my wheelchair out of the garage".

So, my GP goes "why don't you go and do something you enjoy?"
...and I say "what is enjoyment?" and he says "what makes you happy?" and I could not think of anything...I had no thoughts whatsoever...I regularly have no thoughts and I notice for some, having "no thoughts" and no sense of self makes them experience something called "bliss" (Ananda)..well, that boat sailed without me long ago and I was just left with depersonalization and derealization, which only added insult to injury.

So, I have tried "grounding myself" walking barefoot on the beach, touching trees, doing gardening, eating carrots and potatoes..did that help? nope.

The doctor says that I need to be "taken out of myself" like Osho's proverbial goose in the bottle... easier said than done, because I can only externalize my awareness for a few short seconds before it makes me so fatigued, I end up sleeping for days after it.

So now, I am trialling Effexor when I would prefer to be trialling Ayahuasca or microdosing psilocybin.

Will this nightmare ever end? God only knows, but I even cannot feel fear anymore like I used to...live or die, I care not.

[Starman]

Shivani Devi, in my opinion we should avoid getting caught in all of the diagnostic labels. There are many medical schools of thought out there, and also hundreds of psychological schools of thought. Just because a particular school of thought dominates a society, or even many societies, does not mean it is the best approach for you.

The short and simple answer to what you have shared is to discover your passion. Passion brings up strong emotions. When you and I have shared in the past around such topics as the “tattwas” you seemed elated to rekindle the use of that practice. It seemed to bring up emotions in you.

Touch is the primary sense on which all other senses are based. The largest organ in the body, the skin, is predominately associated with us touching the outside world. But all of our senses extend within us and we can get in touch with ourselves as well. Now if someone sticks you with a sharp needle you most probably will feel it, and that is proof that your sense of touch is still in tact.

Psychiatrists, psychologists, the DSM, etc., is associated with psychoanalytic thought, and while it is the dominate mental health approach, and has helped lots of people, it is only one way of looking at mental and emotional conditions. There are hundreds of psychological schools of thought. Psychoanalytic approaches are largely cognitive therapy, what you may need is affective therapy.

Gestalt, Rational Emotive, Existential, Humanistic, and Transactional Analysis, are but a few schools of psychological thought that do not use the DSM, nor do they frequent the use of psychological labels. Rather they use operational definitions, both affective and cognitive. Which describes how a person operates. I might also suggest international medical practices.

Chinese medicine for instance, like acupuncture which is also used for mental health issues. Ayurvedic medicine, which is largely practiced in India, herbal therapies, and other approaches that are not considered mainstream western medicine. One size does not fit everyone and you have to find what works for you.

Just like a religious or spiritual practice, most people find a fit that works for them. I don’t care to get caught up in psychoanalytic DSM diagnostic labels. Every person on this earth can be diagnosed with a label or category that is in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders. Every single person on this earth fits one, or more, of those diagnostic labels. That’s my opinion.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Starman

Shivani Devi, in my opinion we should avoid getting caught in all of the diagnostic labels. There are many medical schools of thought out there, and also hundreds of psychological schools of thought. Just because a particular school of thought dominates a society, or even many societies, does not mean it is the best approach for you.

The short and simple answer to what you have shared is to discover your passion. Passion brings up strong emotions. When you and I have shared in the past around such topics as the “tattwas” you seemed elated to rekindle the use of that practice. It seemed to bring up emotions in you.

Touch is the primary sense on which all other senses are based. The largest organ in the body, the skin, is predominately associated with us touching the outside world. But all of our senses extend within us and we can get in touch with ourselves as well. Now if someone sticks you with a sharp needle you most probably will feel it, and that is proof that your sense of touch is still in tact.

Psychiatrists, psychologists, the DSM, etc., is associated with psychoanalytic thought, and while it is the dominate mental health approach, and has helped lots of people, it is only one way of looking at mental and emotional conditions. There are hundreds of psychological schools of thought. Psychoanalytic approaches are largely cognitive therapy, what you may need is affective therapy.

Gestalt, Rational Emotive, Existential, Humanistic, and Transactional Analysis, are but a few schools of psychological thought that do not use the DSM, nor do they frequent the use of psychological labels. Rather they use operational definitions, both affective and cognitive. Which describes how a person operates. I might also suggest international medical practice.

Chinese medicine for instance, like acupuncture which is also used for mental health issues. Ayurvedic medicine, which is largely practiced in India, herbal therapies, and other approaches that are not considered mainstream western medicine. One size does not fit everyone and you have to find what works for you.

Just like a religious or spiritual practice, most people find a fit that works for them. I don’t care to get caught up in psychoanalytic DSM diagnostic labels. Every person on this earth can be diagnosed with a label or category that is in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders. Every single person on this earth fits one, or more, of those diagnostic labels. That’s my opinion.

Bottom line is that I just want my body to stop "doing its own thing" which generally involves involuntary movement, paralysis or pain without any underlying cause. I feel like a puppet with broken strings...I cannot find any rational cause for this, other than the labels the medical profession has attached to this phenomenon, because there is no organic cause...I am even getting into more "labels" like "demonic possession" which what it was seen as before Sigmund Freud actually coined the term "Hysteria" before the DSM ever existed.

I am a "label person" unfortunately, I would love to know how to drop labels, but I don't know how to do that, because it is easy to say "drop the labels", just like how people will tell a depressed person to "snap out of it" or a person, like me who has been given this label to then say "it's all in your head" what the hell does that actually mean?

I just want to get my "normal" functioning back and I don't know what my passion is..yes, philosophy and intellectual concepts greatly interest me, but again, this is just thought vs emotion...or using the left brain too much at the expense of the right brain.

I do know there are feelings buried deep inside me, but they have been covered with so much muck and rubbish that I no longer have access to them...and for every shovel full of muck and rubbish I remove, two more gets dumped on it...I am like Sisyphus.

I have watched umpteen YouTube videos about "finding your passion" but none of them make any sense to me because it's like a huge cake I don't know where to bite first, so I don't because it is all "too hard".

I have tried music, meditation, mindfulness, yoga...there IS a solution for me, but I just cannot find it and whenever I apply any concerted effort to do so, my mind shuts down again and I go into a dreamlike state, where aI will stare at something like a lava lamp for hours on end, thinking only a few minutes have passed by.

I also realise that this may be something requiring a Shaman to fix... something I have been meaning to look into for a while, but I haven't as yet.

[Shivani Devi]

By the way, Starman...I must thank you for all of those recommendations.

I am now reading a paper:
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...r_somatization

At the moment, my psychologist is trying DBT and CFT (after CBT just kept me in my head and therefore not useful whatsoever) however, Affective CBT seems to be a different approach from the standard cognitive model and is proving useful in treating Somatization Disorder...as I am now reading...in that it takes a "label" to remove another "label".

I am calling it "the endless onion".

Whatever passion I seem to have had has gone out and it isn't a question of rekindling it, but relighting it altogether...this is why I am finding myself drawn to taking a psychedelic...just once. The first and last time I did so was about 35 years ago... it is like my whole system needs a "reboot" somehow...what else can do that?

[Starman]

I do not want to interfere with the therapy that you are currently receiving, and I am glad to
hear that your psychologist may be using a more affective approach.

Healing is a journey, a process that may take many years, if not decades, for most. I think we
all have something rather personal and intimate that we are dealing with.

For me it is my eyes, as I was previously blind and then regained my eyesight, and now the
older I get the potential is high that I will once again go blind. I have other ailments as well,
but am learning to work around them.

I wish you good fortune in your healing journey, and know you are not alone in your travels.
I think about Stephen Hawking, a brilliant physicists who had a motor disease from and early
age but still achieved so much with his life.

We are all taking different routes down the same road, and we usually don't know why we
had to take that route until we are much farther down the road, and maybe not even then.

[Shivani Devi]

Shivani, my love...it is still there, you haven't lost it ..let me refresh your memory:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_FZfC0cs98
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jDkBkst4iQs
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PjLnOM2KPSA

What is happening, is that your rational mind and thoughts are stopping you from being able to let go and just surrender into emotion...it has created a huge blockade and is very protective of it...it is the ego defending itself and using your body to do so..

What you need is an awesome kirtan session either with or without chemical lubricant, but an "ego death" wouldn't go astray either.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

What is happening, is that your rational mind and thoughts are stopping you from being able to let go and just surrender into emotion...it has created a huge blockade and is very protective of it...it is the ego defending itself and using your body to do so.

It sounds like you have a lot of suppressed emotional pain. I believe that suppressed emotional pain is the cause of anxiety and depression. It is also toxic and can manifest in the physical body as stress and pain.

It also takes a lot of energy to suppress all these painful feelings for decades. But the rational mind continues to suppress them because it is trying to protect you from whatever is so painful within. This suppression is now the habitual response of the rational mind. But there comes a point where suppressing painful emotions causes more problems and pain than the original emotions we are trying to avoid experiencing.

Medication may block the symptoms but it seldom deals with the cause. In the end, the only way to deal with the cause is to dive within and face all that is painful within.

There is no quick fix, but you may find The Sedona Method by Hale Dwoskin and The Journey by Brandon Bays useful.

Peace.