KARMA

[TerramineLightvoid]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Agreed, Altair.
The degree of misogyny reflected in TSV's post is so extreme.

So basically, your whole response to me is passive aggressively targeting me indirectly by just circle jerking with Altair? Cool story bro.

And his rejection of basic facts on the ground so complete, that there is little to no common ground upon which to dialogue or respond.

You wanna talk facts on the ground? Watch this youtube channel, look for videos on modern day feminism, sexism, etc: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjN...asDdRoD9J6X-sw

Everything this guy says is fact, including up to science and government statistics, etc. He calls out all of the common misinformation spread by tumblr and youtube.

He could simply say he doesn't agree but without clearly stating that women who are raped or abused deserve it and it's also their fault if they are not as tall, big, strong, and powerful as men

Because that's totally the variables at play in situations where people are in... a situation. That they CHOOSE to be in? It's undeniably logical that a person is responsible when they choose to enable and pretty much GO TO the abuse itself. Intimidation is not a valid excuse to waiver responsibility. Does it warrant question of whether other responsibility still lies on the abuser's side? Of course it does, and of course ultimately a person who is abused is never justified.

The problem is, you turn that into a fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

An Ad Hominem. Even if you were right(Protip: You're not. And how hilarious you can't see how fallacious it is to cry "sexist" and "rape supporter" when someone challenges the propaganda to slander and skew the image of Men and to create a sexist culture and a reverse-rape culture against CIS Males.) it wouldn't make the logical deductions I assert false, and it would also be pertinent to ask in what sense and to what degree. But that doesn't matter to you cause you can just do the thing all the kids these days are doin and cry racist or sexist or whatever and shut them out and pretend like you won. Like a pidgeon playing chess. He just knocks over the board in frustration and takes a dump on it.

Anyways, you'll never be able to change the facts, the only one being uncivil or biased and even Sexist(Misandry is sexism too, or did you buy the cop out that you can't be sexist against men? Which would be convenient considering you are more than willing to cry Misogynist yourself.)

I don't hate anyone, or judge people on the BASIS of their race or sex. My whole speech basically said "Women should do what Men do and be like Men". Meaning I perceive them as equal on a role and capability basis. I've been victimized my whole life, including up to molestation. So I have a right to open my mouth on the subject. You can say people deal with it differently, but that will always be subjective. Mostly it's about opportunity and knowledge. Even men won't take a grasp on their own responsibility for their own fate if they don't have the right wisdom. Meanwhile culturally[This is simply an objective observation, rhetorically and anecdotally asserted, not a reflection of biology.] you are the one being sexist when you say women are any more or less vulnerable than men, and then on top of that it is purely your opinion or your attempt to gleam the truth of what people do about that. I know for a fact how responsibility works, and how we only have ourselves to blame if we squander our gift of life by God.

However, he's done us the great kindness of making his fear and loathing as transparent as possible, and for that, I must thank him for removing all doubt

Literally 100% personal insult/slander of character.

This is of course, inflammatory and extreme, and goes against the reality on the ground, in which women are built entiredly differently and are not as tall, big, strong, or powerful.

The hypocrisy of the average mindless drone, is completely unsurprising. It's literally symptomatic of not being able to be honest.

I further observe that his tone toward me reflects a pattern, as he has been similarly uncivil, and unnecessarily aggressive, in his responses to you and others. In TSV's aggressive and hostile response, his courtesy to me simply as a person is lacking. Civil discourse is difficult at best in with such person.

I'm aggressive for having a different opinion/conclusion about the truth?

[TerramineLightvoid]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Well now, brevity has never been my strong suit, but for once I believe I managed to say the same thing with far less words. I simply placed a name on my ignore list.

But I do appreciate all you have said here, and particularly the line I included above. I think it shows in action the principal I tried to explain in an earlier post. We all create our own realities, and one can create a reality for themselves in which rape is perfectly acceptable. However, one is likely to find themselves alone in such a reality as most (unfortunately one can't say all) are going to be unwilling to share this reality with them. And so we see one more person shake their head and choose to move on rather then engage.

If nobody ever wants to come into ones house, perhaps it needs a good cleaning out.

You basically ended the argument with absolute unfettered slander and ad hominem and basically because someone actually speaks facts to disagree, that show you to be wrong. You just resort to attacking the person like literally 99% of all people in the modern age because they are mindless drones who are just shills swallow the rat poison from their overlords.

And the overwhelming Misandry of both of you speaks volumes to prove how right I am bout everything. Sorry, y'all aren't going to win this war. Too many people already aren't willing to just swallow the bull**** pill of demonizing men. Especially men, you can't sell the slander to the people you're slandering and they make up literally 50% of the population so this issue rests in a grey stalemate of having to repeat the same mistakes over and over because now that sexism against women is FACTUALLY OVER, men are being oppressed for an undeniable fact. They have been for as long as women and the denial and demonization of men is just leading to a war between the sexes because unlike most women who have been culturally conditioned to be complacent to oppression. Men haven't(At least, not in the same sense. Their nature is conditioned to be dominant and to be the voice which says "suck it up" when they themselves or someone else falls and scrapes their knee. It's the voice that playing the ROLE of the victim, is to simply thrive off of it in ways that aren't congruent with what being the victim means whether generally or specific to the violation.)

10 years from now. We're gonna be somewhere inbetween. It's gonna be cool to acknowledge the real source of the issue and how it plays out immeasurably for both sides and thus it can't be an argument of invalidating one side's misgivings over the other's.

[TerramineLightvoid]

Also I just want to say that this topic is not about sexism. I was not the one who originally brought it up, little alone biasedly. So I responded to 1 post in this thread and Ketzer is literally just jumping in and creating more drama because he's mad I told him he's wrong about other **** that is actually more on-topic and not politics or whathaveyou.

People could have just ignored my post if it bothered them so much in their cognitive dissonance to actually for 2 seconds hear something that contradicts their normal flow of info and culture. Instead they had to just degrade into sheer disrespect because their drinking the coolaid too much. Shrug.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid

If you want to Red Herring and Strawman Fallacy my words, aka putting words in my mouth, then sure.

I didn't make any straw man fallacy, chap..
You said yourself that women ''CHOOSE'' to be feminine and choose to be in situations where they get abused.
It was on the previous page and some of it in the first post on this page..


Just one example, first post on this page you say:

Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid

It's undeniably logical that a person is responsible when they choose to enable and pretty much GO TO the abuse itself.

How does anyone ''choose to enable'' abuse? How does anyone ''go to'' the abuse? Who in this world is choosing to be abused..?

[TerramineLightvoid]

Originally Posted by Altair

I didn't make any straw man fallacy, chap..
You said yourself that women ''CHOOSE'' to be feminine and choose to be in situations where they get abused.
It was on the previous page and some of it in the first post on this page..

The Straw Man and Red Herring is that I said there are examples of specific situations where women are responsible for the situation just as much as the other person.

You then resorted to emotional appeal fallacy to direct into a straw man/red herring that, what I just said, is EQUIVALENT to making an absolute and /general/ statement that all rape victims are to be blamed for what has happened to them.

What I said wasn't a general/absolute statement. It was not reflective upon the generality and fundamentality of Rape. It was not a statement that "Women are to be blamed for being raped." and if anything that is an absurdly gross intellectual dishonesty on your part. Very deliberately so. You changed the context and slandered my character by making me look like a villain that is just being evil to be evil.

Rather than being Amoral/Neutral and making the /objective/ statement that the definition of Rape or Abuse of any kind requires a /lack of consent/. In which I pointed out that plenty of people put themselves into situations by deliberately avoiding their own ability to make a difference.

How does anyone ''choose to enable'' abuse? How does anyone ''go to'' the abuse? Who in this world is choosing to be abused..?

What's funny is if you actually go back and read what I had said, it can be explicitly shown that I was SPECIFICALLY talking about "Marriage Rape" and similar situations. Again, it wasn't a general or vague statement meant to reflect upon all situations. So when y'all flipped out and said what you did, 90% of what I said had nothing to do with that and wasn't conducive to that.

You made it sound like the whole argument. What WAS stated rather generally, was a more overarching message in regards to Sexism/Oppression. It was majority WOMEN who voted against the right to vote because they didn't want to be drafted. They were more than happy to let the men die for them and to be the pampered princess. Feminists themselves say that there are countless women who are essentially "enabling the patriarchy" or even outright "fighting for it".

It can't be sexist, if a Woman is doing it. That's called Voluntary Submission, is all. Anyways the point is. Look up Stockholm Syndrome. Tallk to people who have witnessed or been a part of domestic abuse, etc. You'll know what people are talking about when they say someone "wants to be abused".

The excuses and rationalizations people will make to scapegoat their own responsibility to do something about the situation, are as numerous as grains of sand.

[Altair]

You have very clearly stated that women choose to be feminine and choose to enable abuse. Your words, not mine. You are very much blaming the victim throughout your posts and now that you've been cornered you're coming up with a charade that you were ''misunderstood'', eschewing responsibility for what you said in your posts.

Anyways. I'm done with your incessant ranting. You are rather unpleasant to converse with and very bitter..
I rarely put people on my ignore list but I will do so now.

Someone on this thread really hates women. And I had thought it was a rare myth.

mi·sog·y·ny

dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
"she felt she was struggling against thinly disguised misogyny"

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by TerramineLightvoid

So basically, your whole response to me is passive aggressively targeting me indirectly by just circle jerking with Altair? Cool story bro.

You wanna talk facts on the ground? Watch this youtube channel, look for videos on modern day feminism, sexism, etc: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjN...asDdRoD9J6X-sw

Everything this guy says is fact, including up to science and government statistics, etc. He calls out all of the common misinformation spread by tumblr and youtube.

Because that's totally the variables at play in situations where people are in... a situation. That they CHOOSE to be in? It's undeniably logical that a person is responsible when they choose to enable and pretty much GO TO the abuse itself. Intimidation is not a valid excuse to waiver responsibility. Does it warrant question of whether other responsibility still lies on the abuser's side? Of course it does, and of course ultimately a person who is abused is never justified.

The problem is, you turn that into a fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

An Ad Hominem. Even if you were right(Protip: You're not. And how hilarious you can't see how fallacious it is to cry "sexist" and "rape supporter" when someone challenges the propaganda to slander and skew the image of Men and to create a sexist culture and a reverse-rape culture against CIS Males.) it wouldn't make the logical deductions I assert false, and it would also be pertinent to ask in what sense and to what degree. But that doesn't matter to you cause you can just do the thing all the kids these days are doin and cry racist or sexist or whatever and shut them out and pretend like you won. Like a pidgeon playing chess. He just knocks over the board in frustration and takes a dump on it.

Anyways, you'll never be able to change the facts, the only one being uncivil or biased and even Sexist(Misandry is sexism too, or did you buy the cop out that you can't be sexist against men? Which would be convenient considering you are more than willing to cry Misogynist yourself.)

I don't hate anyone, or judge people on the BASIS of their race or sex. My whole speech basically said "Women should do what Men do and be like Men". Meaning I perceive them as equal on a role and capability basis. I've been victimized my whole life, including up to molestation. So I have a right to open my mouth on the subject. You can say people deal with it differently, but that will always be subjective. Mostly it's about opportunity and knowledge.

Even men won't take a grasp on their own responsibility for their own fate if they don't have the right wisdom. Meanwhile culturally[This is simply an objective observation, rhetorically and anecdotally asserted, not a reflection of biology.] you are the one being sexist when you say women are any more or less vulnerable than men, and then on top of that it is purely your opinion or your attempt to gleam the truth of what people do about that. I know for a fact how responsibility works, and how we only have ourselves to blame if we squander our gift of life by God.

Literally 100% personal insult/slander of character.

The hypocrisy of the average mindless drone, is completely unsurprising. It's literally symptomatic of not being able to be honest.

I'm aggressive for having a different opinion/conclusion about the truth?

TSV -- women are not men, full stop. And they cannot be made to become men, full stop. Raping women and then blaming them &/or living in denial as men will not change the reality on the ground. Looks like you have a real problem with accepting the reality on the ground. Yet no matter how you rant and thrash, woman are not men -- and so you cannot fashion reality to fit your purported perception. That's a real quandary you've got there.

However, you also vaguely acknowledge even men aren't perfect. WHAT a shocker. In all seriousness, I commend you on that piece of wisdom, but as it stands it is sorely inadequate to the needs of any fully realised human being who is consciously walking his or her path. To that end, IMO you would be well served to consciously seek to continue much further on the path of authentic love, in equanimity and compassion. I would say the same to anyone, but in your case, with perhaps a bit more urgency

Taking ownership not only means respecting and accepting women by neither raping them nor blaming them for the rapes of other men. Taking ownership also means respecting and accepting women's experiences and respecting and accepting the reality on the ground. Not just your lived reality, but the lived realities of others, as well.

Despite my initial revulsion and disgust at such blatant misogyny, I also have some compassion for you and anyone else who is struggling so deeply with accepting the reality within which we currently live. Until we accept reality as it is, there will be little we can do to contribute in any meaningful way. Good luck to you on that.

The reality is, most women have experienced sexual assault of some kind (by definition, it is unwanted and univited), including violence, abuse, manual groping and digital or object penetration (rape), and/or one or more of the following other forms of rape -- date rape, coercion, force, &/or attempted rape. Either as children, as young women, and/or as adults.

I wish you all the best on your journey. However, until and unless you are able to accept the reality on the ground, you're going to have to discuss with someone else, not me. This acceptance includes honouring the reality of the suffering of the weak and vulnerable at the hands of the stronger and more powerful. Such as that put forth by the other poster a few pages back when she disclosed she was assaulted and raped, after which you disparaged her and all women by saying women deserved to be raped and abused and it's their fault they're not men.

You haven't walked a mile in her moccasins (nor in those of any woman), and you've no right to judge or disparage her nor any of us for the sufferings forced upon us. No one here blames or judges you for any assault or rape you may have experienced, and I would strongly recommend you extend the same courtesy to others. To blame or judge others for their weakness and the violence inflicted upon them, particularly when due to their inherent physical weakness and vulnerability, is unspeakable vile and loathsome behaviour.

This is your response. Do not respond further to me, or I'll be forced to report your posts to the mods, as well as putting you on ignore. Instead, I recommend self-reflection and meditation regarding why you struggle to accept and honour the stated experiences of others for what they are. Perhaps we'll talk again months or years down the road after you've had time to reflect. Or perhaps not, it's all good.

Peace,
7L

[Miss Hepburn]

Interesting. I was listening to an interview with Natalie Sudman...
one of the most
interesting NDEs I've ever read...it helps that she has a high IQ.
Her book is deeper than any interview.

She spoke about karma and that it was about consequences...how to her understanding it is not something
that is absolute (my words).
She spoke about Jesus stepping out of this 'energy' of karma and how we can also---- with forgiveness.
When we forgive ourselves...
we no longer need to believe in this sowing and reaping because we have forgiven ourselves.

Ethan Fox was the interviewer if you search for it...I just rem it was around 1hr 22 min in...

[7luminaries]

Hello Miss H. :)
I haven't listened to the interview. I also know that universal laws are simply what it and don't require belief, per se. What we have done in the past has had effects on ourselves and others, and likewise the same for them. Love is the answer as is coming to live in our centre, and to be and do love moment-to-moment. And there are specific ways in which to manifest that love on the ground which bring healing to trauma.

Ms. Sud sounds like she is trying to convey that forgiveness is transformative. It is! Repentence is transformative. It is. Reconciliation is transformative. It is.

The deepest of these is reconciliation...involving forgiveness and repetence and transformation and healing all round...and at the deepest levels.

But reconciliation is built upon the pillars of forgiveness and repentence, the true work of building the spirit and the character, the eternal soul.

I've noticed that when many speak of forgiveness, the rest of this is not discussed but may be implicit or understood. Forgiveness can open the door to true change and growth (in truth and right-alignment, with lovingkindness). Likewise, remorse and contrition open the door to repentence, to true change and growth (in truth and right-alignment, with equanimity).

We need them both. And most of all, we need reconciliation and healing, the fruits of all forgiveness and repentence.

Perhaps forgiveness is the greater block for many and thus why it is often emphasised. And that makes sense.

Peace & blessings
7L