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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #61  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:03 AM
Uday_Advaita Uday_Advaita is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 51
 
For last few days, I have been observing posts on this string,

I wish to quote a para from the book “Awakening to the Dream” by Leo Hartong
(I would certainly recommend this book)

Quote

“Let me ask you a question. Where did the event of ‘you’ have its beginning? Was it at birth, at conception, or when your grandparents’ grandparents met? No matter where you draw the line, it will be arbitrary and defines an artificial boundary. In the game of day-to-day living, these conceptual borders come in handy; but most of us have long forgotten that they are entirely conceptual.”

Unquote.

I wish all my friends to contemplate on the above.

Is it not high time that we should stop ascribing “personal doer-ship” to a conceptual ‘me’ and a conceptual ‘you’ and awaken to our impersonal, formless and blissful nature.
Namaskar
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  #62  
Old 02-07-2019, 04:55 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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"Who" will be left to contemplate or discuss these ponderable you (individual not plural) put forth? ;)

There are grounded, manifest reasons why we discuss from the perspective of individuated consciousness. Mainly having to do that the level to which you refer will not be consciously experienced by any of us for any meaningful length of time. Meaning, for any span of time in which we can also function in this physical realm.

Therefore the most meaningful strides or movements toward centre lie in real, manifest, actualized behavior and perspectives centred in authentic love (reflecting Love or One). Authentic love as lovingkindness from equanimity. Karma is relevant in this broad context and can be apprehended and realised and manifested at both individual and collective levels.

At the level of One, you could say nothing is relevant, including karma. Or I could say everything is relevant, including karma. Either way, we can say very little else about it except that, as Buddha said, (we can strive to) know the emptiness, but do not dwell there. So IMO discussions where we actually suppose that we (as individuated consciousness who exist in interbeing with all that is) apprehend emptiness in any depth or breadth are pleasant and inspiring but usually fairly short.

Peace & blessings
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #63  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:49 PM
WildHairedWoman WildHairedWoman is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 336
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
There's people who believe they can ''create their reality'', in the most literal sense. But there's a mistake in seeing the choices presented with having absolute freedom without consequences. To put it simply, we won't fly by just flapping our arms when we jump off a building. Having strong beliefs to the contrary won't save us. People on drugs can believe such things and act upon it, they have strong belief but then it kills them. Same way some of us may think we can smoke, drink, or eat junk year in year out without consequences. Eventually reality will catch up with all of us..

I have spoken out against solipsism and extreme relativism a lot because these are dangerous philosophies. They're morally questionable and can lead to unhealthy outcomes, either to the enthusiastic follower or to others, people or animals. There's a sense of ''I can do as I please, it's all relative'' or ''It's all illusion'' and all of this is not really well aligned with any notion of karma..

If we are divine beings of love and compassion than it makes sense to try and live in accordance with that, and don't just have an ''anything goes'' mentality about it. True, in practice we are never purists but we can all try our best. So sure, there is relativism, but any extreme relativism is as nonsensical as claiming to have zero impact or collecting zero karma as an incarnated human in this world. We can recognize relativism, but some go overboard using it as a means to excuse any activity or claim anything is possible..



"relativism" is NOT "I can do as I please, anything goes" philosophy. I think you are trying to make something that is subject, objective and force people to choose your truth instead of their own. There are extremist in all belief systems and there is a difference between belief and philosophy.
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  #64  
Old 02-07-2019, 06:19 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildHairedWoman
"relativism" is NOT "I can do as I please, anything goes" philosophy. I think you are trying to make something that is subject, objective and force people to choose your truth instead of their own. There are extremist in all belief systems and there is a difference between belief and philosophy.

Indeed it isn't. 'Healthy' relativism recognizes variety in different human societies. We know that some things are better done in culture x than in culture y. I draw the line at violence, but otherwise you'll have practices that will vary with culture, and that can be fine. I was talking about extreme relativism [the word is in the post you quoted], which does have an anything goes attitude in practice, whether it's about morality or about the nature of reality. I'm puzzled why you have quoted me.. (?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by 7L
Therefore the most meaningful strides or movements toward centre lie in real, manifest, actualized behavior and perspectives centred in authentic love (reflecting Love or One). Authentic love as lovingkindness from equanimity. Karma is relevant in this broad context and can be apprehended and realised and manifested at both individual and collective levels.

7L, do you have an example of this..? How does karma manifest on the collective level?
We know we have impact on our world and society as a collective through our activities, choices, voting etc. But I wonder, do we form 'collectives' and live out karma collectively again in a future life..? Say everyone that died in the Rwanda genocidal war, do they all form a karmic bond together and are as a generation reborn elsewhere? Or does every individual goes his/her own way and deal with that karma separately..?

Any other people's insights on this would be appreciated too.
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  #65  
Old 02-07-2019, 08:20 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
7L, do you have an example of this..? How does karma manifest on the collective level?
We know we have impact on our world and society as a collective through our activities, choices, voting etc. But I wonder, do we form 'collectives' and live out karma collectively again in a future life..? Say everyone that died in the Rwanda genocidal war, do they all form a karmic bond together and are as a generation reborn elsewhere? Or does every individual goes his/her own way and deal with that karma separately..?

Any other people's insights on this would be appreciated too.

The Ancient Wisdom teaches that there is individual karma, national karma, racial karma and the karma of the human race as a whole. We each deal with our individual karma within the karma of the greater group.

There is also the idea that we as individuals belong to a soul group, and there are larger groupings of soul groups which are themselves part of still larger groups, and so on.

I cannot say how this actually works in practice. But we can point to major events in history (e.g. the American Civil War, the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami) and consider these as examples of individuals experiencing their own karma within the greater karma of greater groups.

Peace.
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  #66  
Old 03-07-2019, 05:29 PM
clover clover is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pacific Coast
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Hello everyone,


Take a break from this thread. In the future, please do not hijack the threads, SF is a discussion forum not a debate one. Most importantly ,stick to the original subject of the thread. You all went from Karma to rape. Enough with beating a dead horse with that same topic I find in so many threads,

Closing the thread for now as I am cleaning it up a bit. I will reopen soon.

Thanks

Clover
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