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  #51  
Old 08-10-2019, 01:00 AM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
My dear Guthrio


While I'm not disagreeing with you in the least, is there more? If it was a dream then what does that mean for our experiences? The reality of the dream is as valid a reality as the not-a-dream or the waking state and they are both the consciousness of Spirit.

You can become conscious that you are conscious, then become conscious of what you are conscious of. Every time you think you have consciousness nailed down it jumps up a level, it takes a quantum leap to itself and it encompasses the newly-discovered levels of itself. The dreamer becomes the dreamer, the dream and what is dreamt of.

Many years ago I was asked "Are you a butterfly thinking you are a Samurai, or are you a Samurai thinking you are a butterfly?" There are three answers to that question and each is a 'layer' of consciousness.

Brother Greenslade,

"Speaking of butterflies"...the only "more" that I have heard described is absolutely beyond my comprehension...but here it is, as expanded in the reference, below:

“When a soul is out of the cocoon of the three bodies it escapes forever from the law of relativity and becomes the ineffable Ever-Existent.10 Behold the butterfly of Omnipresence, its wings etched with stars and moons and suns! The soul expanded into Spirit remains alone in the region of lightless light, darkless dark, thoughtless thought, intoxicated with its ecstasy of joy in God’s dream of cosmic creation.”

“When a soul finally gets out of the three jars of bodily delusions,” Master continued, “it becomes one with the Infinite without any loss of individuality. Christ had won this final freedom even before he was born as Jesus. In three stages of his past, symbolized in his earth-life as the three days of his experience of death and resurrection, he had attained the power to fully arise in Spirit.“The physical karma or desires of man must be completely worked out before his permanent stay in astral worlds becomes possible,” my guru elucidated in his thrilling voice. “Two kinds of beings live in the astral spheres. Those who still have earthly karma to dispose of and who must therefore reinhabit a gross physical body in order to pay their karmic debts could be classified, after physical death, as temporary visitors to the astral world rather than as permanent residents.

“Beings with unredeemed earthly karma are not permitted after astral death to go to the high causal sphere of cosmic ideas, but must shuttle to and fro from the physical and astral worlds only, conscious successively of their physical body of sixteen gross elements, and of their astral body of nineteen subtle elements. After each loss of his physical body, however, an undeveloped being from the earth remains for the most part in the deep stupor of the death-sleep and is hardly conscious of the beautiful astral sphere. After the astral rest, such a man returns to the material plane for further lessons, gradually accustoming himself, through repeated journeys, to the worlds of subtle astral texture.

“Normal or long-established residents of the astral universe, on the other hand, are those who, freed forever from all material longings, need return no more to the gross vibrations of earth. Such beings have only astral and causal karma to work out. At astral death these beings pass to the infinitely finer and more delicate causal world. Shedding the thought-form of the causal body at the end of a certain span, determined by cosmic law, these advanced beings then return to Hiranyaloka or a similar high astral planet, reborn in a new astral body to work out their unredeemed astral karma.

“My son, you may now comprehend more fully that I am resurrected by divine decree,” Sri Yukteswar continued, “as a savior of astrally reincarnating souls coming back from the causal sphere, in particular, rather than of those astral beings who are coming up from the earth. Those from the earth, if they still retain vestiges of material karma, do not rise to the very high astral planets like Hiranyaloka.

“Just as most people on earth have not learned through meditation-acquired vision to appreciate the superior joys and advantages of astral life and thus, after death, desire to return to the limited, imperfect pleasures of earth, so many astral beings, during the normal disintegration of their astral bodies, fail to picture the advanced state of spiritual joy in the causal world and, dwelling on thoughts of the more gross and gaudy astral happiness, yearn to revisit the astral paradise. Heavy astral karma must be redeemed by such beings before they can achieve after astral death a permanent stay in the causal thought-world, so thinly partitioned from the Creator.

“Only when a being has no further desires for experiences in the pleasing-to-the-eye astral cosmos, and cannot be tempted to go back there, does he remain in the causal world. Completing there the work of redeeming all causal karma or seeds of past desires, the confined soul thrusts out the last of the three corks of ignorance and, emerging from the final jar of the causal body, commingles with the Eternal.


This is as Sri Yukteswar described to his former disciple Paramahansa Yogananda. As far as I'm concerned....

...then the fun begins.

Reference: https://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chapter-43/
__________________
“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
http://csermelyblog.tehetsegpont.hu/...ir%C3%A1ly.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COt1n3jDqA&t=19s

Last edited by guthrio : 08-10-2019 at 01:02 AM. Reason: clarify inputs
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  #52  
Old 08-10-2019, 08:32 AM
hazada guess hazada guess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guthrio
Brother Greenslade,

"Speaking of butterflies"...the only "more" that I have heard described is absolutely beyond my comprehension...but here it is, as expanded in the reference, below:

“When a soul is out of the cocoon of the three bodies it escapes forever from the law of relativity and becomes the ineffable Ever-Existent.10 Behold the butterfly of Omnipresence, its wings etched with stars and moons and suns! The soul expanded into Spirit remains alone in the region of lightless light, darkless dark, thoughtless thought, intoxicated with its ecstasy of joy in God’s dream of cosmic creation.”

“When a soul finally gets out of the three jars of bodily delusions,” Master continued, “it becomes one with the Infinite without any loss of individuality. Christ had won this final freedom even before he was born as Jesus. In three stages of his past, symbolized in his earth-life as the three days of his experience of death and resurrection, he had attained the power to fully arise in Spirit.“The physical karma or desires of man must be completely worked out before his permanent stay in astral worlds becomes possible,” my guru elucidated in his thrilling voice. “Two kinds of beings live in the astral spheres. Those who still have earthly karma to dispose of and who must therefore reinhabit a gross physical body in order to pay their karmic debts could be classified, after physical death, as temporary visitors to the astral world rather than as permanent residents.

“Beings with unredeemed earthly karma are not permitted after astral death to go to the high causal sphere of cosmic ideas, but must shuttle to and fro from the physical and astral worlds only, conscious successively of their physical body of sixteen gross elements, and of their astral body of nineteen subtle elements. After each loss of his physical body, however, an undeveloped being from the earth remains for the most part in the deep stupor of the death-sleep and is hardly conscious of the beautiful astral sphere. After the astral rest, such a man returns to the material plane for further lessons, gradually accustoming himself, through repeated journeys, to the worlds of subtle astral texture.

“Normal or long-established residents of the astral universe, on the other hand, are those who, freed forever from all material longings, need return no more to the gross vibrations of earth. Such beings have only astral and causal karma to work out. At astral death these beings pass to the infinitely finer and more delicate causal world. Shedding the thought-form of the causal body at the end of a certain span, determined by cosmic law, these advanced beings then return to Hiranyaloka or a similar high astral planet, reborn in a new astral body to work out their unredeemed astral karma.

“My son, you may now comprehend more fully that I am resurrected by divine decree,” Sri Yukteswar continued, “as a savior of astrally reincarnating souls coming back from the causal sphere, in particular, rather than of those astral beings who are coming up from the earth. Those from the earth, if they still retain vestiges of material karma, do not rise to the very high astral planets like Hiranyaloka.

“Just as most people on earth have not learned through meditation-acquired vision to appreciate the superior joys and advantages of astral life and thus, after death, desire to return to the limited, imperfect pleasures of earth, so many astral beings, during the normal disintegration of their astral bodies, fail to picture the advanced state of spiritual joy in the causal world and, dwelling on thoughts of the more gross and gaudy astral happiness, yearn to revisit the astral paradise. Heavy astral karma must be redeemed by such beings before they can achieve after astral death a permanent stay in the causal thought-world, so thinly partitioned from the Creator.

“Only when a being has no further desires for experiences in the pleasing-to-the-eye astral cosmos, and cannot be tempted to go back there, does he remain in the causal world. Completing there the work of redeeming all causal karma or seeds of past desires, the confined soul thrusts out the last of the three corks of ignorance and, emerging from the final jar of the causal body, commingles with the Eternal.


This is as Sri Yukteswar described to his former disciple Paramahansa Yogananda. As far as I'm concerned....

...then the fun begins.

Reference: https://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/chapter-43/

That is an excellent reference,so easy to follow and answering many question's.
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  #53  
Old 08-10-2019, 05:27 PM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazada guess
That is an excellent reference,so easy to follow and answering many question's.

Hi, Hazada Guess,

Welcome to Spiritual Forums. The thing I like about this reference so much is that it comes from a " been there, still doing that" frame of reference, though all of the contemporaries in this book have gone on to continue their eternal journeys beyond this earthly plane. It is rare to read an account such as this that tells of what the continuing journey is actually like for those (like me) who have not reached that plateau of accomplishment in own lives. But there we have it, thanks to them!

The entire Autobiography, and everything Yogananda says within it, especially the words above from his own former guru, Sri Yukteswar.... continue to have an impact that few other spiritual accounts has had on me.

It's like Sri Yukteswar is saying to Yogananda, "I'm walking through eternity, it's really cool! I thought I'd deliver this "postcard" to you personally and tell you how much I miss you. Someday, my Son, you too will be here! Be well. I love you".....
(For some reason saying this brought unexpected tears to my eyes).

Hope you are enjoying the other posts in this excellent thread and throughout Spiritual Forums.
__________________
“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
http://csermelyblog.tehetsegpont.hu/...ir%C3%A1ly.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COt1n3jDqA&t=19s

Last edited by guthrio : 08-10-2019 at 07:08 PM.
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  #54  
Old 09-10-2019, 08:25 AM
hazada guess hazada guess is offline
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gthrio.............I have heard many stories of how life is after death,but the above reference,I find,is the one that I can most relate to.
Many thanks for posting it and yes,I am enjoying Spiritual Forums.I find it a valuable escape from the trials and tribulations of life.
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  #55  
Old 11-10-2019, 01:03 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guthrio
Brother Greenslade,

"Speaking of butterflies"...the only "more" that I have heard described is absolutely beyond my comprehension...but here it is, as expanded in the reference, below:

My dear Guthrio

While I can appreciate this might be your cup of tea it's just not palatable for me. Sorry and all that. Especially -

Quote:
Originally Posted by guthrio
“Only when a being has no further desires for experiences in the pleasing-to-the-eye astral cosmos, and cannot be tempted to go back there, does he remain in the causal world. Completing there the work of redeeming all causal karma or seeds of past desires, the confined soul thrusts out the last of the three corks of ignorance and, emerging from the final jar of the causal body, commingles with the Eternal.

This is a Journey to Self but there is a wider understanding of just what that Self ism because often we are here for others as much as ourselves. It's the experiences that help us grow - or hinder us depending on how we deal with them. The Soul is never confined but can encompass several states of existence at the same time.

The Soul is both the butterfly that dreams it is a Samurai and the Samurai that dreams it/he is a butterfly - and both, and neither. And in a state of Paradoxical Thinking understands the encompassing multi-dimensional consciousness. One-dimensionality is a single axis, three-dimensional reality encompasses (encompasses is the key word) three axes with two dimensions of consciousness encompassing those again.

Incidentaly, I was watching a YouTube that says the mathematical basis for reality is not a 3D model as scientists have been saying for years, but a six-dimensional crystalline matrix.
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  #56  
Old 11-10-2019, 01:12 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazada guess
gthrio.............I have heard many stories of how life is after death,but the above reference,I find,is the one that I can most relate to.
Many thanks for posting it and yes,I am enjoying Spiritual Forums.I find it a valuable escape from the trials and tribulations of life.
Grab yourself a large bucket of popcorn, a few beers ans a copy of Robin Williams' Whatever Dreams May Come. And tissues, because it's a weepy. Watch it through Spiritual eyes though.

And I hate to say it but Spirituality is Life.

The temple of the most high begins with the human body, which houses our life, essence of our existence. Africans are in bondage today because they approach spirituality through Religion provided by foreign invaders and conquerors. We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans which were supposed to help people grow spiritually.

Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe and each other. As the essence of our existence it embodies our culture, true identity, nationhood and destiny. A people without a nation they can really call their own is a people without a soul. Africa is our nation and is in spiritual and physical bondage because her leaders are turning to outside forces for solutions to African problems when everything Africa needs is within her. When African righteous people come together, the world will come together. This is our divine destiny.
Haile Selassie


Although he was talking about religion and Spirituality in Africa, it's relevant the world over.
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  #57  
Old 11-10-2019, 02:52 PM
hazada guess hazada guess is offline
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Thankyou for replying greenslade.I know everybody has their own ideas about spirituality.I know the above post by Guthrio has a few points that I don't agree with but it gives you an approximation of how life is like when you pass.Added to all the other stories of what is supposed to happen,it gives you a rough idea of what it is like.Many stories have similarities and from that i get a rough idea.
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  #58  
Old 11-10-2019, 03:46 PM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazada guess
Thankyou for replying greenslade.I know everybody has their own ideas about spirituality.I know the above post by Guthrio has a few points that I don't agree with but it gives you an approximation of how life is like when you pass.Added to all the other stories of what is supposed to happen,it gives you a rough idea of what it is like.Many stories have similarities and from that i get a rough idea.
No movie then? Tsk tsk, you're missing the understanding. When Robin Williams' character first went to 'heaven' he saw a field of the most vivid colours, he tried to drink tea from a brightly-coloured cup that was made of plasticine and it fell apart as he tried to drink from it. His son didn't look like his son and his wife was in purgatory because it was he Catholic belief that suicide was a sin.

The understanding there was that reality didn't look like anything in particular until consciousness made it appear to be that colour, that age, purgatory... As he 'tuned in' the cup became more solid - which is also the understanding of how things ap[pear solid in this dimension.

There is also a saying in mediumship - "All Spirit is thirty-five years old." Spirit has no age but the idea their is to put across that as thirty-five is the prime of Life, as it is in heaven.

Dreams talk the language of consciousness while the mind talks of planes, structures, hierarchies and the like. What we see in dreams is never literal, always a representation of a consciousness that has no form.
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  #59  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:03 PM
hazada guess hazada guess is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
No movie then? Tsk tsk, you're missing the understanding. When Robin Williams' character first went to 'heaven' he saw a field of the most vivid colours, he tried to drink tea from a brightly-coloured cup that was made of plasticine and it fell apart as he tried to drink from it. His son didn't look like his son and his wife was in purgatory because it was he Catholic belief that suicide was a sin.

The understanding there was that reality didn't look like anything in particular until consciousness made it appear to be that colour, that age, purgatory... As he 'tuned in' the cup became more solid - which is also the understanding of how things ap[pear solid in this dimension.

There is also a saying in mediumship - "All Spirit is thirty-five years old." Spirit has no age but the idea their is to put across that as thirty-five is the prime of Life, as it is in heaven.

Dreams talk the language of consciousness while the mind talks of planes, structures, hierarchies and the like. What we see in dreams is never literal, always a representation of a consciousness that has no form.

true, but it's nice to think there's something there.
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  #60  
Old 12-10-2019, 08:26 AM
Greenslade Greenslade is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazada guess
true, but it's nice to think there's something there.
Of course there is - YOU!!!
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