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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Science & Spirituality

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  #1  
Old 05-06-2019, 03:38 AM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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See, I do exist!

Thought so.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0603124621.htm
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  #2  
Old 05-06-2019, 04:00 AM
neil neil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Thought so.

Then I guess congratulations is in order, on being in existence.

SMILES.
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  #3  
Old 05-06-2019, 12:56 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil
Then I guess congratulations is in order, on being in existence.

SMILES.

And I was right too.
But now, do you exist, or am I just imagining you??
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  #4  
Old 05-06-2019, 04:33 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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What if the cat is in Schrödinger's dream? Does a Schrödinger's electron jump the same way?

Are you "more real" than you-in-your-dream, or you-in-your-imagination? I don't think so.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #5  
Old 05-06-2019, 05:27 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
What if the cat is in Schrödinger's dream? Does a Schrödinger's electron jump the same way?

Are you "more real" than you-in-your-dream, or you-in-your-imagination? I don't think so.




They are his electrons so I suppose that is up to Schrödinger. In a dream he can make it jump any way he likes. He of course can do so while not in a dream, but if he strays too far from the most probable path, he may find himself all alone, just like in his dream.


I think you are right. I expect I am as real as I am ever going to get no matter where I am. And wherever I am, I will see myself as false everywhere I am not.
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  #6  
Old 05-06-2019, 06:50 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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When I dream, usually, I think that I am real, and that whatever is happening to me, in the dream, is real.

When I become lucid in a dream I recall the me that is dreaming.

Now and here, I think that I am real, and that whatever is happening to me, here and now, is real.

When I am in an altered state of consciousness, I have a different perspective of this me of here and now.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #7  
Old 05-06-2019, 08:47 PM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
When I dream, usually, I think that I am real, and that whatever is happening to me, in the dream, is real.

When I become lucid in a dream I recall the me that is dreaming.

Now and here, I think that I am real, and that whatever is happening to me, here and now, is real.

When I am in an altered state of consciousness, I have a different perspective of this me of here and now.




Yes, very true.

Where do all of these different "I"s come from and where do they go?
Which you is real and which is not?
What worlds are real, and which are false?
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  #8  
Old 05-06-2019, 10:18 PM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Yes, very true.

Where do all of these different "I"s come from and where do they go?
Which you is real and which is not?
What worlds are real, and which are false?

if by real you mean 'does it exist' well thoughts exist at least in my mind so any world I can think of is by definition real, at least while I'm thinking about it.

Story changes somewhat though if you change your definition of real to 'does it exist within the physical/consensus reality'. Then suddenly a lot of things become fake.

Not because they are inherently fake but because you've agreed with others that you should call them fake simply because they don't naturally manifest in a specific manner, that you and others have also agreed to.

Anyway while you and others are agreeing about the definitions of limitations, someone like Christ goes off and decides to disagree with the both of you... and then finds himself performing miracles.
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  #9  
Old 06-06-2019, 12:07 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
if by real you mean 'does it exist' well thoughts exist at least in my mind so any world I can think of is by definition real, at least while I'm thinking about it.

Story changes somewhat though if you change your definition of real to 'does it exist within the physical/consensus reality'. Then suddenly a lot of things become fake.

Not because they are inherently fake but because you've agreed with others that you should call them fake simply because they don't naturally manifest in a specific manner, that you and others have also agreed to.

Anyway while you and others are agreeing about the definitions of limitations, someone like Christ goes off and decides to disagree with the both of you... and then finds himself performing miracles.

Have you experienced lucid dreaming? You can perform miracles in that world, because you know you're dreaming. If you realized you're dreaming here, in what you call "physical/consensus reality", you could perform miracles here too.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #10  
Old 06-06-2019, 02:16 AM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Have you experienced lucid dreaming? You can perform miracles in that world, because you know you're dreaming. If you realized you're dreaming here, in what you call "physical/consensus reality", you could perform miracles here too.

A key word here is "consensus" You can create any miracle within your reality that you believe you can. However, unless we have a "consensus" that you can do this, then nobody else will witness it in their realities.
Jesus is an interesting case, for the most part those who witnessed his miracles did so because they believed he could perform them. When he healed someone and they thanked and praised him, he responded that their faith had healed them. And this is true, they allowed the healing into their created reality because they believed it to be possible, and had faith that he could do this, a sort of extreme placebo effect.
However, this is not always the case (lazarus comes to mind). Sometimes it appears that Jesus was able to perform miracles even if those around him did not believe he could and therefore would not have created those events within their own realities. This is truly rare when it comes to faith healing and performing miracles.
Typically we all have a choice to believe and witness (create the events within our realities) or not believe and reject. The standard explanation is that well.... of course, Jesus is the Christ, the incarnation of God. But I would argue that we are all incarnations of God. So why do you think that Jesus (or anyone really) would be able to do this when most faith healers (or even faith harmers) rely on the belief and creation of those whose realities they are affecting?
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