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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spirituality

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  #1  
Old 29-08-2019, 09:16 AM
Siemens Siemens is offline
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Only three Theories explain the Relation between our Soul and Matter

Many asked: Is there a soul? If yes, what is its nature and how does it relate to our material world? And what is matter?
Only three theories give possible answers to these questions:

(A) There is no soul and all that is is matter (classic atheism).
(B) A supernatural soul hallucinates the material world and the material world does not really exist, i.e. in form of a substance (visualization theory).
(C) A supernatural soul connects with the material world whereby soul and matter were two different forms of substance (dualism).

These three theories give answers to the nature of our soul, matter, and the relationship between.
The three theories are mutually exclusive, each one rules out the other two. Furthermore one of the three is necessarily true.
All religions and theories that explain the universe are just variations, e.g. Christianity = dualism C. There are no further possibilities.


2 Questions:

1) A, B, and C are not all equally likely. So, how high do you estimate the likelihood of each of them, and why? In sum you have to get 100%.
My own guess:
A ~ 0
B ~ 70%
C ~ 30%

2) In the case of C and B: How are they realized technically?
How does the soul connect to matter in theory C, and where does soul-enwraping matter come from?
How does visualization work in theory B - and if matter is an visualization, is the soul a computer?



(Terminology: With soul I refere to the thing outlasts our physical body.)

Last edited by Siemens : 29-08-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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  #2  
Old 29-08-2019, 10:40 AM
Siemens Siemens is offline
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The reason why I think B (visualization) is more likely than C (dualism) is because of its simplicity. In theory C (dualism) you have to postulate two different kinds of substance: soul-substance and matter-substance. In B you need only one kind of substance that explains everything: The substance or energy that our soul consists of.
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  #3  
Old 29-08-2019, 11:19 AM
Jyotir Jyotir is offline
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Quote:
There are no further possibilities.
D) All reality and existence is consciousness.

Since all-consciousness is all-power...
Soul, matter, or anything else is then simply a particular status, poise, or projection of consciousness-force within the All, whether static or dynamic.

To call matter a "substance" is imposing a material construct or paradigm on the larger scheme, and why then "connection between" becomes result and necessity of that reasoning.

Matter is really a very limited consciousness, a conditional ignorance of what is native to the soul-consciousness that is infinitely more aware and has free access to a comprehensively greater reality within that awareness. But they both originate in and are the same in essence. This is not "dualism", because there is in fact, no "connection" - they are One. The soul is therefore not "supernatural", but rather simply extraordinarily Natural.

When our instrumental consciousness ascends or surrenders to that of the soul, we become that which it inalienably and eternally is.
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  #4  
Old 29-08-2019, 11:33 AM
Emm Emm is offline
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I would agree with Jyotir's D. 100%
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  #5  
Old 29-08-2019, 01:11 PM
Siemens Siemens is offline
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Okay, I admit there are some errors on my premise. But there isnít much difference between A und D. I should have written:

A) Our consciousness is created by or identical with matter - independently, where matter comes from.
(As an explanation for the relation between our consciousness and matter.)





Quote:
Originally Posted by Emm
I would agree with Jyotir's D. 100%
So you are 100% sure that it is D. And you KNOW that A, B, or C are definitely not the case?

How can you be so sure?
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  #6  
Old 01-09-2019, 12:22 PM
Emm Emm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siemens
So you are 100% sure that it is D. And you KNOW that A, B, or C are definitely not the case?

How can you be so sure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siemens
(A) There is no soul and all that is is matter (classic atheism).
I experienced an OBE during a conversation I was having while being introduced to someone. I call it OBE but could just as well as call it a shift in consciousness/awareness. I was myself but not the physical self. A very strange and astonishing experience when you're not expecting it. I was left in no doubt once I returned to my "normal" physcial state that we never cease to exist, but we take on many different forms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siemens
(B) A supernatural soul hallucinates the material world and the material world does not really exist, i.e. in form of a substance (visualization theory).
I don't think of the soul as supernatural...its the closest thing we have but hidden in plain sight and very natural. While in the physical we are limited within our self beliefs so its where our focus of attention is.

Neither do I think of physical reality as being a hallucination, just a different vibrational dimension of reality...just as other dimensions are invisible to us doesn't mean they don't exist. Around the same time as my OBE it seemed to kick start what we call a Kundalini awakening...I was open to all kinds of different realities thankfully without losing my own rational thinking processes. It left me in awe of the experience and with a better understanding of how all exists in one energetic whole. A bit like cogs in a machine each and every existance matters ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siemens
(C) A supernatural soul connects with the material world whereby soul and matter were two different forms of substance (dualism).
I believe matter emerges from the soul. Each of us create our reality and also intermingles with other souls versions of reality through a like on like attraction. Its so complex and extraordinary that to be aware of it the human mind would short circuit. I got a very very small taste of it not so long ago and was feeling very disorientated. Its all consciousness related...after all, what are we if not our conscious mind.

The thing is, we can't convince anyone of anything. If we meet life with an open mind, have the honest desire to have our questions answered we will experience what we ask for. When you have your extraordinary moments it can take years for it to make sense and even then you can still pull more understanding from it as time goes by. The answers seem to come in layers, as if they belong in different dimensions themselves and we get fleeting access to them depending on our own state of being and what we are wanting from it. Like I said before, its an attraction based universe. That's my own personal take on it anyhow through experiences...but then again, we experience what we believe so who is to say mine is the truth lol.
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  #7  
Old 11-09-2019, 09:42 PM
Truth307 Truth307 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
D) All reality and existence is consciousness.

Since all-consciousness is all-power...
Soul, matter, or anything else is then simply a particular status, poise, or projection of consciousness-force within the All, whether static or dynamic.

To call matter a "substance" is imposing a material construct or paradigm on the larger scheme, and why then "connection between" becomes result and necessity of that reasoning.

Matter is really a very limited consciousness, a conditional ignorance of what is native to the soul-consciousness that is infinitely more aware and has free access to a comprehensively greater reality within that awareness. But they both originate in and are the same in essence. This is not "dualism", because there is in fact, no "connection" - they are One. The soul is therefore not "supernatural", but rather simply extraordinarily Natural.

When our instrumental consciousness ascends or surrenders to that of the soul, we become that which it inalienably and eternally is.

Great post. We are ONE. Truth is One.
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  #8  
Old 21-09-2019, 01:05 AM
Kioma Kioma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyotir
D) All reality and existence is consciousness.

Since all-consciousness is all-power...
Soul, matter, or anything else is then simply a particular status, poise, or projection of consciousness-force within the All, whether static or dynamic.

To call matter a "substance" is imposing a material construct or paradigm on the larger scheme, and why then "connection between" becomes result and necessity of that reasoning.

Matter is really a very limited consciousness, a conditional ignorance of what is native to the soul-consciousness that is infinitely more aware and has free access to a comprehensively greater reality within that awareness. But they both originate in and are the same in essence. This is not "dualism", because there is in fact, no "connection" - they are One. The soul is therefore not "supernatural", but rather simply extraordinarily Natural.

When our instrumental consciousness ascends or surrenders to that of the soul, we become that which it inalienably and eternally is.
Exactly.

spiritual and physical are not separate 'things' - they are two very different ways of seeing the exact same thing.

That is what transcendence is; not an opening of knowledge, but an opening of perspective. That is the awareness, the expansion of consciousness.
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I know nothing.

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  #9  
Old 02-10-2019, 06:17 PM
r6r6r r6r6r is offline
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Color ..Space ( Time *) i (* Time ) Space....

Quote:
Kioma---Exactly. spiritual and physical are not separate 'things' - they are two very different ways of seeing the exact same thing.


Spirit-1{ spirit-of-intent } is not an occupied space, however it is accessed { stems from } via the following,



Spirit-2 occupied space fermions, bosons and their aggregate assimilation as a biological/soul , that is associated with the following beyond set,



Metaphysical-3 Gravity ( ) and,


Metaphysical-4, Dark Energy )( that both are an occupied space.
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"Dare to be naive"... R. B. Fuller

"My education has been of my biggest impediments to my learning"...A. Einstein

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."...R Feynman
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  #10  
Old 29-08-2019, 06:29 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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I believe that the relation between me-here-now and the soul / essence / higher-self / whatever incarnated as me-here-now, is a similar relation with that between me-in-my-dreams and me-here-now.

So, it may be close to your B, without any conclusion about the material world existing, because when we dream, that dream-world is a material world for us-in-our-dreams.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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