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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Astral Projection > Near Death Experiences (NDEs)

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  #1  
Old 25-06-2019, 05:38 PM
freebird freebird is offline
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NDE psychedelic?

Found this online about nde saying that it's the brain fighting for survival, as it dramatically increases its activity, it skyrockets during NDE with dmt molecule stating that consciousness does reside in the brain despite people wanting to believe it does not. Unfortunately there is no proof for the believers. What do you say?
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/near...elic-religious
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  #2  
Old 25-06-2019, 08:22 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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This is a typical argument made by those materialist scientists who are convinced that consciousness and the mind somehow originate in the physical brain. Therefore any NDE is simply a "final" burst of brain activity producing a "psychedelic" experience. This fits in with their belief that a human being is just a physical body.

For others, the idea that consciousness and thinking originate from the physical brain is ridiculous. The physical body is just a small part of the human being, so NDEs are genuine experiences independent of the brain, although the experience of having an NDE may produce a physical response in the brain.

We all come up with theories which suit our beliefs, and one day we will find out for ourselves. In the meantime, I suggest you read Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife by Eben Alexander.

Peace.
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  #3  
Old 26-06-2019, 02:53 AM
neil neil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
Found this online about nde saying that it's the brain fighting for survival, as it dramatically increases its activity, it skyrockets during NDE with dmt molecule stating that consciousness does reside in the brain despite people wanting to believe it does not. Unfortunately there is no proof for the believers. What do you say?
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/near...elic-religious

& so why then does the brain & body go into a dormant mode when we have a full blown out of body experience.

Because consciousness only resides in Soul'self, & when Soul'self leaves the body, the body only just maintains life within it self...naturally...ie:- pump blood, breath.

Same with death, when a person permanently disconnects from the body & lives on without it, why does the body still not carry on as a conscious entity. ..because consciousness only resides within Soul'self & at the moment of transition from Earthly living, consciousness leaves with Soul'self because it resides within it & not within the non sentient, non conscious & non intelligent brain body system.
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  #4  
Old 26-06-2019, 07:33 AM
sentient sentient is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
We all come up with theories which suit our beliefs, and one day we will find out for ourselves. In the meantime, I suggest you read Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife by Eben Alexander.

Thank you for the info. Didn’t read the book, but watched a youtube instead about his experience and then the videos on this site:
https://taniaochoa.com/blog/98605/wh...genous-shamans

NDEs seem to have more in common with “shamanic death experience awakenings” than with Kundalini awakenings - by the sound of things.

*
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  #5  
Old 26-06-2019, 07:12 PM
freebird freebird is offline
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So who is correct? The materialists or the new age scientists?
PS: I can't recall too many modern scientists claiming that consciousness does not originate within the brain. Most modern scientists mock God and Spirituality
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
This is a typical argument made by those materialist scientists who are convinced that consciousness and the mind somehow originate in the physical brain. Therefore any NDE is simply a "final" burst of brain activity producing a "psychedelic" experience. This fits in with their belief that a human being is just a physical body.

For others, the idea that consciousness and thinking originate from the physical brain is ridiculous. The physical body is just a small part of the human being, so NDEs are genuine experiences independent of the brain, although the experience of having an NDE may produce a physical response in the brain.

We all come up with theories which suit our beliefs, and one day we will find out for ourselves. In the meantime, I suggest you read Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife by Eben Alexander.

Peace.
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  #6  
Old 26-06-2019, 10:57 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
So who is correct? The materialists or the new age scientists?
PS: I can't recall too many modern scientists claiming that consciousness does not originate within the brain. Most modern scientists mock God and Spirituality

Unless we have experienced conscious existence outside the physical body none of us can say who is right. But one day we will find out for ourselves.

Regarding the beliefs of modern scientists you may want to check out http://opensciences.org/

They say:

We are a group of internationally known scientists, from a variety of scientific fields (biology, neuroscience, psychology, medicine, psychiatry), who participated in an international summit on post-materialist science, spirituality and society. ... Our purpose was to discuss the impact of the materialist ideology on science and the emergence of a post-materialist paradigm for science, spirituality, and society.

Note item 16 of their manifesto:

Post-materialist science does not reject the empirical observations and great value of scientific achievements realized up until now. It seeks to expand the human capacity to better understand the wonders of nature, and in the process rediscover the importance of mind and spirit as being part of the core fabric of the universe. Post-materialism is inclusive of matter, which is seen as a basic constituent of the universe.

Peace
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  #7  
Old 27-06-2019, 08:22 AM
freebird freebird is offline
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So why didn't the open minded scientists prove that materialists are wrong and outdated? Despite open minded scoentists claiming to have evidence of spirit, afterlife, non physical consciousness and reincarnation?

If we cease to exist after physical biological death, how are we going to find out ourselves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Unless we have experienced conscious existence outside the physical body none of us can say who is right. But one day we will find out for ourselves.

Regarding the beliefs of modern scientists you may want to check out http://opensciences.org/

They say:

We are a group of internationally known scientists, from a variety of scientific fields (biology, neuroscience, psychology, medicine, psychiatry), who participated in an international summit on post-materialist science, spirituality and society. ... Our purpose was to discuss the impact of the materialist ideology on science and the emergence of a post-materialist paradigm for science, spirituality, and society.

Note item 16 of their manifesto:

Post-materialist science does not reject the empirical observations and great value of scientific achievements realized up until now. It seeks to expand the human capacity to better understand the wonders of nature, and in the process rediscover the importance of mind and spirit as being part of the core fabric of the universe. Post-materialism is inclusive of matter, which is seen as a basic constituent of the universe.

Peace

Last edited by freebird : 27-06-2019 at 10:13 AM.
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  #8  
Old 27-06-2019, 08:29 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebird
So why didn't the open minded scientists prove that materialists are wrong and outdated? Despite open minded scoentists claiming to have evidence of spirit, afterlife, non physical consciousness and reincarnation?

If we cease to exist after physical biological death, how are we going to find out ourselves?

Again it comes back to objective proof vs subjective experience. The materialist scientist wants objective proof but non-physical consciousness is a subjective experience. Eben Alexander was a materialist neurosurgeon until he had his own subjective experience and then his thinking completely changed. He then found that his colleagues treated his experiences in the same way as he had previously treated such experiences reported by his patients - ie the experiences were dismissed as being brain activity.

We are going round in circles. And really, it does not matter what scientists think - they are just ordinary human beings with no special insights into the mysteries of life and death. Study all the evidence for yourself and make your own mind up.

If we do cease to exist after physical death then that will be the end of it. But we are concerned here with the possibility that consciousness does not cease to exist.

Peace.
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  #9  
Old 04-07-2019, 08:46 PM
freebird freebird is offline
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What about OBE (Out Of Body Experiences), what do you have to say about them? Are those out of body experiences hallucinations or illusions created by a dying brain? A study that was conducted on people having clinical death (nde) associated with out of body experiences showed that their brain activity ramped up during the nde
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  #10  
Old 04-07-2019, 09:20 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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There is so much literature on OBEs - I have 50+ books on the subject, and it is difficult to believe that these are all just hallucinations.

If someone believes that a human being is just a physical body then OBEs can only be a hallucination within the brain.

If you believe that a human being has various bodies - physical, etheric, astral, mental, spiritual, then OBEs occur when consciousness withdraws from the physical and functions through the more subtle bodies. And this is a natural process.

The materialist reduces the human to the physical body and finds an explanation for OBEs which fits their belief. But if a human is more than just the physical body then the materialist argument falls flat.

Peace.
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