The Two Truths

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

That belief is called Buddhism :)

Well of course.

Do you believe in yourself as all that which you try to convey through your beliefs?

[Ground]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

There is only one Truth :)

Ultimately there is no truth at all.

Now one might ask isn't that object of mind called "Ultimately there is no truth at all." arising through seeing this concatenation of sign assumed to be a truth?

No! Because ultimately there is no truth at all.

Now one might ask isn't that object of mind called "No! Because ultimately there is no truth at all." arising through seeing this concatenation of sign assumed to be a truth?

No! Because ultimately there is no truth at all.

---

So it ends up with infinite regress. Infinite regress has not limit and is indeterminate. No corresponding object can arise from infinite regress because it never ends. It is like unbounded openness.

Experientially infinite regress is like space.


The philosophical system of 'The two truths' is a construct for ordinary mind which even philosophically (i.e. analytically) is inconsistent. It entails irreconcilable contradictions on its posited 'conventional level', e.g. between scientific and buddhist alleged 'conventional truths'. Thus it isn't compatible with the lives of people of present space-time. And the reason for this is that it calls 'truths' what merely are appropriate linguistic expressions or concepts in their own very limited contexts but are inappropriate or 'false' linguistic expressions or concepts beyond these very limited contexts. Since even the expression 'ultimate truth' is merely a linguistic expression or concept it is an inappropriate of 'false' linguistic expression because it claims truth in ultimacy and negates any contextuality when it is merely a linguistic expression or concept not different from any other linguistic expression or concept.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Ground

Ultimately there is no truth at all.

Now one might ask isn't that object of mind called "Ultimately there is no truth at all." arising through seeing this concatenation of sign assumed to be a truth?

No! Because ultimately there is no truth at all.

Now one might ask isn't that object of mind called "No! Because ultimately there is no truth at all." arising through seeing this concatenation of sign assumed to be a truth?

No! Because ultimately there is no truth at all.

---

So it ends up with infinite regress. Infinite regress has not limit and is indeterminate. No corresponding object can arise from infinite regress because it never ends. It is like unbounded openness.

Experientially infinite regress is like space.


The philosophical system of 'The two truths' is a construct for ordinary mind which even philosophically (i.e. analytically) is inconsistent.

While a belief creates a mindset believing in something, it makes sense to me why it becomes so.

Until you understand yourself as that space, then you cannot see what space your filling and creating as yourself in all other ways.


And most cant comprehend themselves as empty space so their is an immediate desire to fill it up with something..hence belief to make themselves into something that is really nothing..

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Well of course.

Do you believe in yourself as all that which you try to convey through your beliefs?

Why do you think this is my belief?

This is a Buddhist belief and just one I am sharing

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Ground

Ultimately there is no truth at all.

Now one might ask isn't that object of mind called "Ultimately there is no truth at all." arising through seeing this concatenation of sign assumed to be a truth?

No! Because ultimately there is no truth at all.

Now one might ask isn't that object of mind called "No! Because ultimately there is no truth at all." arising through seeing this concatenation of sign assumed to be a truth?

No! Because ultimately there is no truth at all.

---

So it ends up with infinite regress. Infinite regress has not limit and is indeterminate. No corresponding object can arise from infinite regress because it never ends. It is like unbounded openness.

Experientially infinite regress is like space.


The philosophical system of 'The two truths' is a construct for ordinary mind which even philosophically (i.e. analytically) is inconsistent. It entails irreconcilable contradictions on its posited 'conventional level', e.g. between scientific and buddhist alleged 'conventional truths'. Thus it isn't compatible with the lives of people of present space-time. And the reason for this is that it calls 'truths' what merely are appropriate linguistic expressions or concepts in their own very limited contexts but are inappropriate or 'false' linguistic expressions or concepts beyond these very limited contexts. Since even the expression 'ultimate truth' is merely a linguistic expression or concept it is an inappropriate of 'false' linguistic expression because it claims truth in ultimacy and negates any contextuality when it is merely a linguistic expression or concept not different from any other linguistic expression or concept.

The Two Truths goes beyond the "object of the mind"... didn't you read that?

The understanding of Ultimate Truth does exactly that so all of this really means nothing..

Also, where do you get that there is no truth at all?

Is that Buddhist or something you are making up?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Why do you think this is my belief?

This is a Buddhist belief and just one I am sharing

Do you believe in yourself as all that which you convey as Buddhist beliefs?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Do you believe in yourself as all that which you convey as Buddhist beliefs?

I believe in many of them because I have experienced them or realized them.

It is funny how some people think belief is a bad word.. it is not, the Buddha even said believe in the Dharama :)

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I believe in many of them because I have experienced them or realized them.

It is funny how some people think belief is a bad word.. it is not, the Buddha even said believe in the Dharama :)

I don't say belief is a bad word. I just realized in my own process that it was something I could let go of. So naturally in the realized awareness you share yourself from that space of understanding and realization that you have gained.

Just as you do from where you are.

Buddhism as a belief system, is probably one belief system that conveys much of what I relate to from within myself..so I have no issues with it, more aware not to be attached in belief to it. Even without Buddhism as my guide, I have come to this awareness naturally in this way.


I am aware now of the open state, open mind, when clear not holding myself to anything, how freeing it is to move in this way. I don't hold myself to belief, but I am not saying its bad, so again you bring this idea of something being a bad notion into the picture, which you did last time in our interactions.

There is no good and bad in me defining what I am aware of in me. It just is.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I don't say belief is a bad word. I just realized in my own process that it was something I could let go of. So naturally in the realized awareness you share yourself from that space of understanding and realization that you have gained.

Just as you do from where you are.

Buddhism as a belief system, is probably one belief system that conveys much of what I relate to from within myself..so I have no issues with it, more aware not to be attached in belief to it. Even without Buddhism as my guide, I have come to this awareness naturally in this way.


I am aware now of the open state, open mind, when clear not holding myself to anything, how freeing it is to move in this way. I don't hold myself to belief, but I am not saying its bad, so again you bring this idea of something being a bad notion into the picture, which you did last time in our interactions.

There is no good and bad in me defining what I am aware of in me. It just is.

Have you truly moved so along the path that you can let go of everything?

If not it is always a good thing to use the Wisdom from those who have to guide us along the way.

Also, your post about people needing to fill the empty space with a belief is what I was referring too. It seems like a negative to me as well as a misunderstanding of emptiness.

Again without doing the practices and experiencing the changes they bring one can't really understand any spiritual tradition. Once you do understand then it is no longer a belief but a realization of being.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Have you truly moved so along the path that you can let go of everything?

If not it is always a good thing to use the Wisdom from those who have to guide us along the way.

Also, your post about people needing to fill the empty space with a belief is what I was referring too. It seems like a negative to me as well as a misunderstanding of emptiness.

Again without doing the practices and experiencing the changes they bring one can't really understand any spiritual tradition. Once you do understand then it is no longer a belief but a realization of being.

I am aware of what I have let go of in myself over a period of thirty years of conscious practice to do so, so I relate myself as that, not the practices that supported me. I have become the practice and the realization in this way so its all integrated as myself. Did you need to know this to confirm something in yourself?

In my awareness and personal connection to emptiness I came to the realization that all attachments including all stories, "assumptions" "others in me" held in the old story, had to be released fully, when let go of in yourself to that level, naturally you enter into the space of emptiness, where you sit in nothing, feel fully what emptiness is like, to enter fully into your ground of being, completely at peace with the whole in yourself..That is emptiness I experienced and know myself as now. My conscious walk to understand myself as that emptiness didn't come from a cereal box..hehehe

I am creating a new story from my ground of being without attachments to the old story that attached itself, because when you rebirth in your body consciously aware of yourself having a second chance at life with new awareness, you start to notice yourself as life and live your life fully, because you no longer fear letting go fully to death or life..Of course, the new story is consciously aware of itself complete and living as that and the emptiness awareness allows me to know and understand that everything is temporary and changing and life continues. I am also aware of myself in the expression of myself as the I or me, understand that I choose to continue to exist as myself in light of where I am now, so even as I am using the I am, I feel, I experience, I exist and live this life, I am aware of myself in this moment.

So I just live my life.


So where you seek enlightenment, I seek life in lots of ways of being open and clear as I am now. I explore life itself in lots of ways of living it. So I take myself as the practice and realization everywhere I am, not just in forums and chat rooms.