The true about the Devil

[Nameless]

My belief is the devil was made up by the early religions, to instill fear in the people that if they didn't go to church the devil would get them...

It still works pretty good too...

I also believe that if someone believes in the devil, the devil is very real to them.

I believe that What I believe creates and forms my reality and I get a million million choices to choose that reality from. But I've been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and I much prefer my newer reality. Preferences makes the world go 'round....

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Nameless

My belief is the devil was made up by the early religions, to instill fear in the people that if they didn't go to church the devil would get them...

Belief in forces of evil have been around long before Christianity. No one has to make it up to get people to go to church, it's been a natural part of spiritual beliefs for many people throughout history.

[Baile]

Yet another thread on this same subject in which the same arguments and the same insults are being tossed about.
Really people, you are better than all this continual, ongoing back-and-forth posturing.

And for the record, I have never believed in the Devil, Lucifer, or evil as some external force.
Love is all you need.
See how easy that was?

[Lilyth Von Gore]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Belief in forces of evil have been around long before Christianity. No one has to make it up to get people to go to church, it's been a natural part of spiritual beliefs for many people throughout history.

Exactly. Except in Ásatrú, none of the Gods are inherently evil. One such God, Loki, his purpose is to remind us that life isn't always serious. Okay, so he kills Baldr but that was his destiny. Everything, every God has a destiny. They are not evil if that destiny leads them to destruction.
The only evil that exists in Ásatrú are the giants. They have a choice, and they choose to try and destroy. They have no destiny, and as such are inherently evil.

at least in the bible; it seems to me that the devil is mostly tales weaving older religions into the fold of Christianity while recasting the old gods as 'the Devil'

Originally Posted by Lilyth Von Gore

Exactly. Except in Ásatrú, none of the Gods are inherently evil. One such God, Loki, his purpose is to remind us that life isn't always serious. Okay, so he kills Baldr but that was his destiny. Everything, every God has a destiny. They are not evil if that destiny leads them to destruction.
The only evil that exists in Ásatrú are the giants. They have a choice, and they choose to try and destroy. They have no destiny, and as such are inherently evil.

hmm...this makes for an interesting discussion. I don't know that I agree that the Jotnar/Giants are inherently evil. If I start a separate thread in the Pagan section would you mind giving your 2 cents Lilyth?

~Naddread~

[Lilyth Von Gore]

Originally Posted by Naddread

hmm...this makes for an interesting discussion. I don't know that I agree that the Jotnar/Giants are inherently evil. If I start a separate thread in the Pagan section would you mind giving your 2 cents Lilyth?

~Naddread~

I would love to.

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by pdizzle45

First off, the association with Devil and Lucifer is not true. Lucifer is not the devil...

I do not believe in the Devil. For me, the Devil is a metaphor for things that are very bad. The temptations that we face every day in a world that has granted us free will. Moreover, I do not think there is a Hell either. Hell for me is something we create for ourselves when we delve into the bad temptations that we face...I am not an atheist either. I firmly believe in a higher power that only be seen if we allow ourselves to see it. God is everywhere.

That's one perspective that usually is brought up by someone when discussing this topic, and it is wrong.
As is easily demonstrated, and explained.
Held by the person for their personal reasons. - But it is easily demonstrated that in various scriptures such as in Isaiah 14, and Ezekiel 24, the devil is a fallen angel, formerly called, "Lucifer".

There are spiritual powers and principalities behined what is apparent in the world, at an individual level, and also behined earthly Governments. There are Angels of different levels, stations, and responsibility.

There are two other names for the devil, also.
One is descriptive, regarding, "The Dragon".

10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;"

"And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."
Revelation 8

Concerning the above, "Stars" have symbolized both angels and people alike in the Bible. From Genesis to Revelation.
Also, while Wormwood symbolizes the devil, the above scripture may be interpreted as literal.

"Waters", also, or "Sea" has represented masses of people, or, the Earth's populace.
--------------------------
"7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, "

"And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."
Revelation 12

- I've posted, prior, how Ego is equated with the devil, and how Ego, also, is related to the survival instinct of this (evolved) organic aspect.
The situation, though, is illusory, just as time and space is, as told to us in Physics today.

We, as well, are certainly more than this gross and superficial, temporary... organic aspect.

Example:
http://www.myshrink.com/counseling-theory.php?t_id=86

Regarding our neuro- anatomy. The "Reptilian Brain".

"The reptilian brain, (Dragon), is an ancient beast. It was developed over 100 million years ago. The higher brain or the neocortex came along a mere 40,000 years ago."

Yet again, as modern physics, and the ancient spiritual teachings both agree, "Time", (and space) are illusory.
Einstein for example determined by his findings that the one constant in the Universe is not time, or space. But Light.

So, regarding the above, we see what the domain of the devil is, and involving his influence.

[Morpheus]

Concerning the above, "Stars" have symbolized both angels and people alike in the Bible. From Genesis to Revelation.

King James Bible

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/14-12.htm

And,,,

New American Standard Bible

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!

"10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;"

"And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." Revelation 8

On symbolisms in the Bible:
Regarding the "Wormwood" verse, waters and sea represent masses of humanity.

"The wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt." Isaiah 57:20

"The abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee." Isaiah 60:5

http://www.revelation-today.com/A1Bible%20Symbols.htm

Originally Posted by Morpheus

God is real, and so is the devil.

When thinking of the devil though, one must consider Ego in humanity, with respect to how it is related to the survival instinct, of the organic aspect... in the "Construct" of time and space.

"12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers,
against the world forces of this darkness,
against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places."


http://biblehub.com/nasb/ephesians/6.htm

Concerning "darkness", also, Matter is referred to in Physics today as slowed down, or, "Frozen" light.

Is the topic and discussion made more "Lucid" now?

[Amilius777]

Hmmm That pretty much ties into my understanding on an individual level,

The Devil is basically the "opposite of God"

In higher realms, only God exists. God is the ultimate being. God is Absolute.

But when you come down into lower dimensions or the "created world" dualities form.

You have not only positive (as seen in heaven), but you have both positive and negative to formulate a dualistic universe.

From my own intuition the devil is both the "ego" as you say Morpheus, but the Devil is also a Negative force that God purposely created to keep a balance of up and down, positive and negative.

That is why certain influences in the world of matter pull us away from the Divine then towards it. Unfortunately this Negative Force, which is also part of God, the Shadow of God, has independence. It can act out, abuse it's independence, and imbalance the cosmos or earthly occurances.

The higher forces, the Light, God and such work against it when things become imbalance.

There you have the symbolic warring of God vs. Satan.

It is a primordial mythos that has a deeper truth and reality at the end of the day.

A great example of how the devil "manifests" is when something good and positive is torn apart and remolded into something negative and abused. A priest who conducts Mass everyday is worshiping God and letting the positive energy of the universe help others. Whereas a priest taking a child in the back room and molesting him and abusing him is a priest worshipping a negative form, the devil, letting the negative energy of the universe disturb the child and the parish. The devil usually manifests through our egos and misguided wills.