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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 29-04-2019, 01:26 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Falling Leaves . . .

Once again you hit one out of the park.

I heartily agree . . . the term ‘Path’ is just a generic term for the uncovering and understanding of LIFE as the Whole that IT is to the actual Center of Existence . . . on an individual basis . . . the understanding of what Soul is . . . why the entire scenario is set up the way it is . . . and taking on the responsibility of living from that awareness. I’d rather type the word ‘Path’ than go through that entire explanation . . . using whatever words one wishes to use to carry the concept even mentally.

Inherent . . . inborn . . . a facet of Soul Itself . . . is the very, very, VERY subtle curious / passionate / compelling desire to “go back home” to the true Home of Soul Itself and to discover Soul’s inherent nature. This is often called the “Divine Discontent” . . . although other studies may have another word for it. As state above . . . it is VERY subtle and is *easily* obscured by the mental preferences that run the show for Soul for eons. This is part of the design.

But slowly . . . slowly . . . as Soul gives up Its mental entrapments and viewpoints . . . taking eons to do so . . . this Divine Discontent gains ground . . . until if unfolds into a demanding desire to “finally figure it out” . . . or . . . “the true nature of reality” . . . at the ultimate level . . . again continuing to use words that carry the concept but the discoveries go far beyond these simple words.

As a final example of this . . . let’s just say . . . that we have a proverbial 36-inch yardstick as the measurement of “Discovery of Reality.” Each individual spends eons not even taking that yardstick up . . . indulging in all kinds of sans-principled, immoral, unethical. criminal, power-driven ways of living life here in these psychic worlds. Finally . . . after eons of getting clobbered by karmic implications . . . Soul decides to figure out “a better way to live.” So the yardstick is take up . . . moving one through all the religions, philosophies, mystic studies and mystery schools, etc. On and on and on. It’s not until inch 34 or 35 that the Divine Discontent really kicks in as the dominant compelling draw to Truth. Until then . . . mind is just too powerful. And but the time we get to inch 36 . . . we are left to only discover that is a very hidden yet quite apparent at that stage of another yardstick beyond . . . that will teach us . . . Truth.

Until then . . . it’s all theory . . . and mental at that.

I appreciate your comments and perceptions. You are to be commended for your previous “work” . . . even if you might not have considered it so.

On we go.
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  #22  
Old 09-05-2019, 01:33 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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I am quite surprised that this thread has seemingly died out. People will discuss beliefs and ego and dreams and such . . . but they seem to have little interest in the process of thought and how it is the emotions that do more to govern our thoughts than the other way around.

Most people think . . . emotionally. It is our emotional passion . . . our like or dislike . . . that tends to govern our entire thought process. It is NOT just some random string of words floating through our consciousness.

If people really wish to take charge of their lives . . . it is the discipline of the emotions and the thought process that brings success . . . and by “emotional discipline” . . . I do not mean to suggest to become an unfeeling zombie.

But . . . the lack of development of this thread has shown a lot . . . to a lot of people.
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  #23  
Old 10-05-2019, 02:40 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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I saw a quote on these boards recently.... someone had said that people don't think so much as let their heart decide something and then let their mind try to find the reasons to support it and fight the ones that go against it. I thought that a good point because it is exactly what I see people doing day in and day out... although if you ask anyone they will 'feel' they are being reasonable.

OTOH I've lived it the other way and that is no picnic let me tell you. You can't do it without throwing vanity out the window, and without vanity you lose your ability to always feel 'good' about whatever it is you choose to do. People generally don't like to live like that until forced into it.

anyway it came to my attention long ago that if one wants to do something 'magical' one can't get there by just responding however one wishes to the impetuous of emotions... you have to turn it around and make the emotions (for lack of a better phrasing) respond to you. But even that observation leaves one with so many questions... and if you go down that road then talk about what you are doing too much you only get people telling you 'no' in any way they can think of to say it.

But besides, between the paradoxes and all the missing information, words don't do most things spiritual justice anyway.

as far as discipline, I suppose you need some. I also think you need to rest sometimes though.
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  #24  
Old 10-05-2019, 03:04 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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***

Very insightful post by Falling Leaves

I’d venture to add that feeling good, if dependent upon external assessment is an induced feeling by conscious thought, hence cannot last. Likewise, the conscience speaks or let us say our heart signals but the ego intervenes. We are at a crossroad. Upward pull vs downward pull. Anchored to the lower, we may yet get free, not by suppression, not by sublimation but by realisation that the external is ephemeral and the internal eternal.

Only our voluntary action enables us to connect. Free will.

***
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  #25  
Old 10-05-2019, 01:29 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Yes . . . to both Falling Leaves and Unseeking Seeker . . . YES.

One begins to discover that “if my emotions are this way then my thoughts tend to go in *thss* direction” . . . and . . . “if I am feeling *that* way then my thoughts tend to go here.”

Now . . . this observation happens in less than a blink of an eye . . . yet one can begin to “see” it . . . to recognize it. And . . . beyond this . . . the emotions themselves are incapable of making such an observation. Emotions cannot recognize themselves within themselves because it has not sense of discernment. They just feel.

The same with the mind. The mind cannot really discernment itself because it has to built-in “brain” to recognize what it itself is doing.

So . . . one is left to discover . . . that there is a greater, pervading Self that is observing this.

And thus lies one of the great discoveries of the Path.

To get true “overviews” . . . there is only one way to do this . . . and that is to get “outside” what one wishes to observe . . . even if only for the fleeting moment. Then . . . as Seeker suggests . . . the eternal is ephemeral and the internal is eternal . . . because Soul does initially tend to reside within the physical body and this gives a sense of “internal / external.” And then Soul begins to realize that It ( Soul ) is actually external to the whole emotional design . . . and then does the same to the mental ploys. Soul begins to realize that It ( Soul ) is “external” to all these facets and that the physical body, the emotions, and the mind . . . are not really IT.

This is the only way one can ever gain any discipline over any of these facets.

Hence . . . free will.
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  #26  
Old 10-05-2019, 03:47 PM
Taking a Break Taking a Break is offline
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Hi zorkchop, how is intuition related with thoughts and emotions?
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  #27  
Old 10-05-2019, 05:56 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Taking a Break . . .

The entire intuitive perception can be very tricky to discern. For many . . . beliefs and habits and patterns can become SO habitual that we perform them or engage in them without any predetermined thought . . . and some people believe this to be “intuitive.” It’s not.

But it can certainly be beneficial if the habits and patterns are for the benefit of Self and those round you.

True intuition begins at the high end of the mental realms . . . and it is a kind of softly and instantly understanding something without resorting to a long string of words or thoughts. It is more of a “process” or ability to know without thinking. It’s not a long, drawn-out process. You just suddenly know.

Both the mind and emotions can kind of set up scenarios where it seems as though this is happening. A truly intuitive individual will begin to discern what is true intuition and what is probably not. Many times . . . initially . . . the best way to discern is to plug in the information and then test it out. If it holds true . . . makes sense . . . enlarges the viewpoint . . . gives a more broad understanding of your life and of LIFE IT-self . . . you might lean a bit towards accepting the intuitive information.

But make no mistake about it . . . the entire “intuitive” process is one to be developed too. There is discernment to be learned there . . . but by the time the individual begins to truly encounter this level of realization . . . they are usually ready for the struggle / learning.

Many people get truly sidetracked in what they believe to be intuition but it later turns out to be false. A good example of this is when people begin to get interested in past lives . . . and the person is just beginning to get caught up in that . . . and then suddenly the individual has the “intuitive” hit that they were someone famous . . . Joan of Ark or a King of England or what have you. This is something that the mind and emotions can totally and very easily lead the individual into believing. Entire lifetimes can be caught up in this.

Discernment comes with effort. Keep things simple . . . try not to head off on a tangent. True intuition is a soft knowing more along the lines of “what to do” or “how to go about something” and much less about “who I am.” That’s a very loose discrepancy . . . but . . . somewhat accurate.

When one begins to talk about true intuition . . . one is getting pretty lofty in it all . . . NOT out of a sense of superiority . . . but in the sense of where one is.
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  #28  
Old 10-05-2019, 07:03 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taking a Break
how is intuition related with thoughts and emotions?

The Alice Bailey teachings describe different bodies and different planes.

Intuition relates to the Buddhic vehicle on the Buddhic plane. The element associated with the Buddhic plane is air. This is the lowest plane of formlessness and the lowest plane of unity. Intuition is direct knowing without the intervention of mind.

Thoughts relate to the mental body on the mental plane. The element associated with the mental plane is fire. The mental plane can be divided into the higher abstract mind and the lower concrete mind. We need to develop the higher abstract mind so that consciousness can make the transition to the plane of intuition.

Emotions relate to the emotional body on the astral plane. The element associated with the astral plane is water. The astral plane is a lower reflection of the Buddhic plane and thus there is a natural correspondence. So intuition is often interpreted on an emotional level as a feeling.

If water is to provide a clear reflection then it needs to be still. In the same way, the emotional body needs to be still and serene to provide a clear reflection of intuition. If there is any emotional disturbance then that will distort any reflection of intuition.

Peace.
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  #29  
Old 11-05-2019, 05:49 AM
janielee janielee is offline
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Thanks....
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  #30  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:57 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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iamthat portrays some valuable information.

Most people have trouble realizing that the thoughts and emotions are distinct from the physical body . . . since they “think and feel” through the physical body. Eventually . . . understanding of this begins to refine . . . and there comes the awareness that these are truly different facets . . . different aspects . . . different parts . . . or different bodies of Self . . . however one wishes to word all of that.

The Buddha level is accepted as a broad “mental” area. The sub-facets . . . such as intuition, discrimination, intellect, etc. . . . the individual can sort these out for themselves according to how compelling they are in the overall Self as we indulge in Life down here. The stronger the compulsion . . . the more close that facet is to the physical realm. Thus . . . the emotions are “stronger” than mental thought . . . and thus lie closer to the physical realms which . . . indeed . . . the emotions are the reflection of the Astral Plane and are “located” just above the physical.

All of this rather esoteric facets are “invisible” . . . as you cannot SEE the emotions and you cannot SEE thought . . . but you ca certainly “see” the effects of both on and within the physical realm. So . . . if one wishes to actually encounter the “invisible worlds” . . . one needs to settle the physical body down . . . and go inside. Just this one step can take a LONG time . . . like . . . lifetimes. Those who are successful at this should know that they have been at this for quite a while. The chattering mind and the overwhelming emotions do not give up so easily.

Just to get to this “step” . . . is a massive undertaking . . . yet eventually necessary. I admire anyone who is approaching and struggling with this. It is a “battle” you WILL win. Keep at it.
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