If there is no God, how did the laws of the universe come into being?

[noyan]

Physicist Professor Michio Kaku stated, "I have concluded that we are in a world made by rules created by an intelligence. To me, it is clear that we exist in a plan which is governed by rules that were created, shaped by a universal intelligence and not by chance." Einstein said that "The Universe could be chaotic but instead is simple, in harmony and beautiful". Now this made me think: What if life emerged by accident and end up here because natural selection by Evolution, because the Universe was created as well by accident because it's simple and in harmony? And if it wasn't like that life wouldn't exist?

When his friend Besso died he said "Now he has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That means nothing. People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” Does this mean that he believed in an afterlife?

If there is no God, how did the laws of the universe come into being? I always thought of God as the Universal Creator Force, not the Abrahamic male God, but who invented that force as well?

[NoOne]

We are stuck in a perception of linear, one-dimensional time. We think everything must have an end and a beginning, but that isn't necessarily the case once you move out of being stuck in three spatial and one temporal dimensions. There are all sorts of possibilities in terms of multi-dimensional and intersecting timelines flowing in different directions and even being completely out of time once you move out of the illusory holographic matrix of the created universe. To put it succinctly, both time and space are essentially illusions, created by our collective mind. Beings that are outside the matrix, do not experience time and space the way we do, therefore concepts such as beginning and end, before and after have no meaning to them. In fact these themes have been explored pretty thoroughly in some Sci-Fi series, such as Star Trek DS9, with its out of time wormhole aliens, the Prophets.

[Altair]

We all have our beliefs concerning this topic. Michio Kaku, by the way, is an agnostic..

I don't believe the ''force'' you mention was created because I don't believe in a creator god. I believe that it is timeless, and has no beginning or end. The same applies to our relationship to god or our state of being. Religions all believe that there is an end to something that was either created (creationism, Abrahamic religions) or that there's an end to something that never had a beginning (dharmic religions). ''But who created your creator god?'' can be cast back with ''But who created that cycle that you believe in? Why does it even exist?'' Both sides have a desire to seek purpose and structure.

If something never had a beginning or origins of suffering or karma there simply cannot be so called endgame, or 'eternal enlightenment' (without ever having to be a form again..) - there are only perhaps long periods of unity or enlightenment but eventually every 'soul' is individuated again, just as the universe reforms itself again..

[noyan]

Thanks for the replies.

@Altair
Do you consider the Universe as God? Like pantheist/pandeist approach?

What do you think happens with us when we die? Will it be like before birth?
Is there spiritual afterlife? Do we go in spirit realm and then reincarnate?

[Altair]

Originally Posted by noyan

Thanks for the replies.

@Altair
Do you consider the Universe as God? Like pantheist/pandeist approach?

What do you think happens with us when we die? Will it be like before birth?
Is there spiritual afterlife? Do we go in spirit realm and then reincarnate?

I believe 'God' is not the same as matter. If it were than it would be self evident and we would have 'God' around us and with us in every moment. People on here may say it's an illusion to suggest there's a duality but if you've experienced real trouble in your life you know there's no 'God' to help you out at the times you need it most. For example, 'God' isn't there for the sick and the weak.. yet 'God' seems available for those who manage to calm their mind. 'God' basically doesn't think like a human, 'God' is a-moral.. (sorry if this sounds a bit depressing but I see no reason to believe otherwise...).

I don't know what happens when we die.. and I doubt anyone actually knows. You gotta be there to know it, the rest is just beliefs. I will know it when I'm there..

[noyan]

Originally Posted by Altair

I don't know what happens when we die.. and I doubt anyone actually knows. You gotta be there to know it, the rest is just beliefs. I will know it when I'm there..

This assumes that consciousness doesen't end after death, correct? Otherwhise you won't get to experience, so you won't be dead

It is either that consciousness ends and is void like before birth or consciousness doesen't end,persists after physical death and there is no actual death but an afterlife that nobody can explain with possible reincarnation? For me the latter makes more sense

I see God as the Universe itself, the consciousness source

[IndigoGeminiWolf]

I believe we are each God, but are veiled here on this dimension, and have forgotten who we are. I don't know about the creation of the Universe. I think it may have had something to do with when two other universes bumped into one another (called p-branes in Physics). It is multiverse theory.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by noyan

Physicist Professor Michio Kaku stated, "I have concluded that we are in a world made by rules created by an intelligence. To me, it is clear that we exist in a plan which is governed by rules that were created, shaped by a universal intelligence and not by chance." Einstein said that "The Universe could be chaotic but instead is simple, in harmony and beautiful". Now this made me think: What if life emerged by accident and end up here because natural selection by Evolution, because the Universe was created as well by accident because it's simple and in harmony? And if it wasn't like that life wouldn't exist?

When his friend Besso died he said "Now he has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That means nothing. People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” Does this mean that he believed in an afterlife?

If there is no God, how did the laws of the universe come into being? I always thought of God as the Universal Creator Force, not the Abrahamic male God, but who invented that force as well?

Some quotes from Max Planck, a theoretical physicist who won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1918.

“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”

“Science…means unresting endeavor and continually progressing development toward an aim which the poetic intuition may apprehend, but the intellect can never fully grasp.”

“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”

“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”

Peace.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by noyan

This assumes that consciousness doesen't end after death, correct? Otherwhise you won't get to experience, so you won't be dead

It is either that consciousness ends and is void like before birth or consciousness doesen't end,persists after physical death and there is no actual death but an afterlife that nobody can explain with possible reincarnation? For me the latter makes more sense

I see God as the Universe itself, the consciousness source

Lets look at it from another angle. We humans experience consciousness the way we do. We humans are however merely one species, as we know it, that does this. There used to be other hominid species around, perhaps they were capable of it too. What remains key however is that the human projects his/her individual experiences upon the universe. We imagine the universe is God, and we imagine God is or must be like a human, with human experiences such as love and experiencing consciousness.

Why isn't God about a virus or a pool of bacteria? Why should God be about consciousness and humanity's drive to project its experiences upon the universe? Why is advanced civilization's drive to equate God with the highest psychological state of a human being any superior to God being that ferocious, non self-aware wolf on the other side of the hill, or the planet itself? Why have we forgotten that our view of God and an afterlife depends on how our society looks? We frequently ask, as human beings, what happens in the afterlife, or whether there is an afterlife, but all we are doing is projecting our human experience upon the universe, upon God, and upon a possible afterlife experience.

[noyan]

Originally Posted by Altair

Lets look at it from another angle. We humans experience consciousness the way we do. We humans are however merely one species, as we know it, that does this. There used to be other hominid species around, perhaps they were capable of it too. What remains key however is that the human projects his/her individual experiences upon the universe. We imagine the universe is God, and we imagine God is or must be like a human, with human experiences such as love and experiencing consciousness.

Why isn't God about a virus or a pool of bacteria? Why should God be about consciousness and humanity's drive to project its experiences upon the universe? Why is advanced civilization's drive to equate God with the highest psychological state of a human being any superior to God being that ferocious, non self-aware wolf on the other side of the hill, or the planet itself? Why have we forgotten that our view of God and an afterlife depends on how our society looks? We frequently ask, as human beings, what happens in the afterlife, or whether there is an afterlife, but all we are doing is projecting our human experience upon the universe, upon God, and upon a possible afterlife experience.

I wouldn't mind if God was a Giant Bacteria that gave birth to this Universe,by accident and life appeared by chance as well, but this as a follow up would come as : "Who created that bacteria then?" and so on. So is better to assume that the Universe always existed without having a creator? I guess so

As for the previous hominini I don't know what to say, it is certain that were other species before Homo Sapiens Sapiens. If consciousness is brain emergent and dependant then that's it as the end and we won't know we died since consciousness will vanish and we are here because life was accidental built on Evolution and it continues to do so. If it's the opposite as the consciousness is not brain emergent, than it's not the end, just our physical body as a tool dies, and this makes the most sense for me and agree with iamthat That's my 2C