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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #21  
Old 11-12-2017, 02:36 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
...
I have learned throughout my life and moreso recently, that people (in general) will only acknowledge another's existence only if it benefits them by doing so, or if they have something to 'teach', 'prove' or 'lord over' by allowing it.

If another is simply 'being themselves' and 'existing in their own awareness/bliss' or just saying stuff for the heck of it...and if another cannot question it, if another cannot argue with it, if they cannot fight it, if it doesn't stimulate them into direct aggression or mental agitation, neither what is being said, nor who is saying it even exists!

I have proven this over and over and over (ad nauseum)!

I shall make a thread, like "Schrodinger's Cat" for example...like many offerings I have made in the Hindu forum, like many replies I have made all OVER these boards, like many things I have said in real life too, like suggestions I have made, like correcting a definition, expressing my own truth...and guess what? it gets IGNORED and do you know why? because it isn't being confrontational in the aspect of anger and intolerance! I am not 'hateful' enough it seems to be acknowledged!

It is because I am not hurting anybody else by doing/saying it! because people want to be attacked! they want to be hated! they want to be stimulated mentally by ANY emotion that does not include love! and I just cannot oblige there...I mean, of course, I can say "you are a stupid idiot if you believe that. It's a load of rubbish! you are delusional...it is NOT how things are" and you just watch, I will emerge from that total invisibility and obscurity into "whoa, so this thing that is directly attacking me actually EXISTS"...and I feel that is why people do it, or else another wouldn't give a tinker's cuss about their neighbour, quite frankly.
That strikes me as being a very unpleasant 'fate'.

Hoping this provides a clue as to how for your love may fully blossom (it is clearly blooming already ) let me pose a hypothetical which strikes me as possibly being useful to you (though it may not be - its just 'a shot in the dark' to to speak):

if a person 'dreamed' such scenario, what might one hypothesize about 'inner' dynamics of the 'dreamer' - that is, if one believed that 'dream's are (self)-created realities?

Some think we "reap what we sow" in 'reality' as well. They could be mistaken, however - and you may really just be surrounded by hateful people who are just looking for targets who are simply being themselves such as yourself to hate.
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  #22  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:01 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Indeed, David. It is a very unpleasant fate for me, almost a curse that myself as a person and whatever I say usually gets totally overlooked, ignored, dismissed by almost everybody out there, unless I'm being mean, rude, aggressive, hateful and spiteful and only then I'm noticed! only then do people see I exist!

I don't know if I am just surrounded by 'hateful people'...but it occurs almost 90% of the time both online AND in real life, that I almost have to strip naked in the middle of a conversation before people stop just talking among each other in my presence and start including me in their conversation! and no, no amount of me saying "I love you, so talk to me" makes any difference. I've tried to get their attention with love, with knowledge, with inspiration, by listening to them, by asking direct questions, by caring...but nothing works! I could bloody steal their bag from at their feet! - I missed my calling as a pickpocket it seems. lol I am a past master at 'blending in'...I'm the most totally unassuming, insignificant, irrelevant creature god ever put breath into!

The ONLY time I ever get noticed is when I pretend to be hateful, hurtful, spiteful, mean, "a brat" etc etc...that's why I learned how to be like that as a 'survival mechanism' to get what I need from life.

Yep, it's my karma and it's a curse.
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  #23  
Old 11-12-2017, 07:27 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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But what if our primary "relationship" in life was with the “primordial space” rather than with other people?

Quote:
Dzogchen asserts that our actual reality is that of inherently vast, boundless and primordial space (emptiness) within which form arises and disperses and within which all manifestations become the ornaments of spontaneous presence; experienced as purely appropriate, natural, uncontrived, and free. Form here refers to everything we experience - physicality, perceptions, thoughts, emotions, intellect - the whole gamut of what we believe to be the ‘real world’. Space is everything that is not form. Space is unmoving, whereas all form moves, often alluded to as the waves that come and go on the surface of the vast stillness that is the ocean. The trick is to rest in space and allow form to arise and dissipate into it without becoming attached to the enticing movement.

In Bali I loved the idea/concept that the Balinese dance is not a dance to an audience, instead it is an inward moving meditative offering to their Gods.

Which kind of leads me to this quote, by Chogyam Trungpa:
Quote:
The fundamental characteristic of true compassion is pure and fearless openness without territorial limitations. There is no need to be loving and kind to one’s neighbours, no need to speak pleasantly to people and put on a pretty smile. This little game does not apply. In fact it is embarrassing. Real openness exists on a much larger scale, a revolutionary large and open scale, a universal scale. Compassion means for you to be as adult as you are, while still maintaining a childlike quality. In the Buddhist teachings the symbol for compassion, as I have already said, is one moon shining in the sky while its image is reflected in one hundred bowls of water. The moon does not demand, “If you open to me, I will do you a favour and shine on you.” The moon just shines.
The point is not to want to benefit anyone or make them happy. There is no audience involved, no “me” and “them.” It is a matter of an open gift, complete generosity without the relative notions of giving and receiving. That is the basic openness of compassion: opening without demand. Simply be what you are. Be the master of the situation. If you will just “be,” then life flows around and through you. This will lead you into working and communicating with someone, which of course demands tremendous warmth and openness.
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  #24  
Old 11-12-2017, 08:19 PM
Kioma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
The fundamental characteristic of true compassion is pure and fearless openness without territorial limitations. There is no need to be loving and kind to one’s neighbours, no need to speak pleasantly to people and put on a pretty smile. This little game does not apply. In fact it is embarrassing. Real openness exists on a much larger scale, a revolutionary large and open scale, a universal scale. Compassion means for you to be as adult as you are, while still maintaining a childlike quality. In the Buddhist teachings the symbol for compassion, as I have already said, is one moon shining in the sky while its image is reflected in one hundred bowls of water. The moon does not demand, “If you open to me, I will do you a favour and shine on you.” The moon just shines.
The point is not to want to benefit anyone or make them happy. There is no audience involved, no “me” and “them.” It is a matter of an open gift, complete generosity without the relative notions of giving and receiving. That is the basic openness of compassion: opening without demand. Simply be what you are. Be the master of the situation. If you will just “be,” then life flows around and through you. This will lead you into working and communicating with someone, which of course demands tremendous warmth and openness.
Strength in openness. That is true love. When God does that, the result is the universe.
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  #25  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:13 PM
7luminaries 7luminaries is offline
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Quote:
Precisely, 7L and this was the whole impetus behind my creation of this thread in the first place!

Thank you for your beautiful comments and taking the time to elaborate on my humble mental offerings. <3

Thank you the kind words :)
And thank you for your sharing as well Shivani

Peace & blessings
7L
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Bound by conventions, people tend to reach for what is easy.

Here we must be unafraid of what is difficult.

For all living beings in nature must unfold in their particular way

and become themselves despite all opposition.

-- Rainer Maria Rilke
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  #26  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:03 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
In Bali I loved the idea/concept that the Balinese dance is not a dance to an audience, instead it is an inward moving meditative offering to their Gods.
This is all that needed to be said to me!!!

I think I still remember how to perform the Legong I was taught a long time ago.

Quote:
But what if our primary "relationship" in life was with the “primordial space” rather than with other people?
For me, this is the case already! I was born that way!

I'd love to be able to have relationships with other people as they seem to be able to have with each other, but for some reason, that wasn't meant to be for me and I don't know why. A lifetime of relationships counseling has failed in regard!

Yep, I was just meant to dance only for Shiva and not other people and Shiva gets very jealous and possessive if I try it. If others don't see me as existing, I should really stop pretending that they do, just so I can be a 'human' and all that entails.

I'll watch this again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JundExZ4XgA

Also, maybe one day I'm going to create a few sock-puppet accounts on here just so I can talk to myself online like I do in real life, because nobody else ever does...I've all but decided that's the way out of this conundrum and the only way to go...create real people in my head!
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  #27  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:50 PM
davidsun davidsun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shivani Devi
Indeed, David. It is a very unpleasant fate for me, almost a curse that myself as a person and whatever I say usually gets totally overlooked, ignored, dismissed by almost everybody out there, unless I'm being mean, rude, aggressive, hateful and spiteful and only then I'm noticed! only then do people see I exist!

I don't know if I am just surrounded by 'hateful people'...but it occurs almost 90% of the time both online AND in real life, that I almost have to strip naked in the middle of a conversation before people stop just talking among each other in my presence and start including me in their conversation! and no, no amount of me saying "I love you, so talk to me" makes any difference. I've tried to get their attention with love, with knowledge, with inspiration, by listening to them, by asking direct questions, by caring...but nothing works! I could bloody steal their bag from at their feet! - I missed my calling as a pickpocket it seems. lol I am a past master at 'blending in'...I'm the most totally unassuming, insignificant, irrelevant creature god ever put breath into!

The ONLY time I ever get noticed is when I pretend to be hateful, hurtful, spiteful, mean, "a brat" etc etc...that's why I learned how to be like that as a 'survival mechanism' to get what I need from life.

Yep, it's my karma and it's a curse.
It strikes me that what has 'happened' in this thread is evidence that the 'pattern' (karma?) that you describe (above) may be changing. Clearly, what you say/said here is not being ignored and you are not being hostilely responded to here-now.

It therefore occurs to me that you may have 'succeeded' in 'finding' a way of 'speaking' and 'talking about matters of importance to you in a way that others find interesting and relatable to, both in terms of 'content' and in terms of manner (i.e. interpersonal attitude and stance implicit in) of the presentation.

Whatever the case is, I think it is important that you notice the change and so don't reactivate/repeat the prior pattern 'from memory'.

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  #28  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:53 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsun
It strikes me that what has 'happened' in this thread is evidence that the 'pattern' (karma?) that you describe (above) may be changing. Clearly, what you say/said here is not being ignored and you are not being hostilely responded to here-now.

It therefore occurs to me that you may have 'succeeded' in 'finding' a way of 'speaking' and 'talking about matters of importance to you in a way that others find interesting and relatable to, both in terms of 'content' and in terms of manner (i.e. interpersonal attitude and stance implicit in) of the presentation.

Whatever the case is, I think it is important that you notice the change and so don't reactivate/repeat the prior pattern 'from memory'.

Thank you David.

Does this mean that you've stopped ignoring me whenever I reply to your posts now and so we can get over our differences we've had in the past and dare I say it, be friends?
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  #29  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:03 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Although, it has also been just revealed to me that repetition is also the key.

Some people only need to say something once and their message gets across...others need to say the same thing a hundred times before somebody realises they have actually said anything.

In future, if I don't get any feedback, I'll just keep repeating myself over and over until I do...even if that feedback is 'shut up' because I will at least be acknowledged as having been heard.

Good plan!
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  #30  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:13 PM
Shivani Devi Shivani Devi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7luminaries
Thank you the kind words :)
And thank you for your sharing as well Shivani

Peace & blessings
7L
Thank you. Peace and blessings be to you as well.

*goes and makes dream jo feel better by talking to her when most on here ignore her*
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