Juicing for weight loss and health

[Arcturus]

i hope you don't mind if i offer a counter point Stephen. i hold back because i agree and commend 90% of the points you make on the health sub forum, not that you need my encouragement of course.

i think juicing maybe helpfull as a short term fasting aid, occasionally, and absolutely has to be organic...and even then you could, very easily, be imbibing to much of the sanctioned "natural" pesticides, if they're used. i have boiled organic celery before and the left over water smelt of spirit alcohol, which is allowed i believe. juicing 1 of those would not have been good. should be low g.i. too imo...adding too many beets and carrots etc, is nearly as bad as drinking soda pops, according to mercola (although he refers to fruit juices, same thing if its beets and/or carrots). also in chinese medicine, which has at least 5000 years experience, they insist that too much raw weakens the spleen/pancreas meridian. i certainly would never use it regularly at very least. its not food, and whilst the vit c rush can be nice, it's too much too fast i think. folk with digestive upset will tolerate raw even less well. my bro felt ill from juicing, salads make my sis ill, and having researched and watched and listened to folk on health forums, i go with the chinese.

that said some folk may be able to do nothing but gain from juicing. i feel that if your diet is right for you then detoxing, which i guess is what you wish to get from juicing, should occur anyway.

Originally Posted by vecta3

i hope you don't mind if i offer a counter point Stephen. i hold back because i agree and commend 90% of the points you make on the health sub forum, not that you need my encouragement of course.

Heehee thanks...! and I enjoy and agree with many of your insights as well! ... we may differ at times but I love your sincere dedication...! :^)

Originally Posted by vecta3

i think juicing maybe helpfull as a short term fasting aid, occasionally, and absolutely has to be organic...and even then you could, very easily, be imbibing to much of the sanctioned "natural" pesticides, if they're used. i have boiled organic celery before and the left over water smelt of spirit alcohol, which is allowed i believe. juicing 1 of those would not have been good. should be low g.i. too imo...adding too many beets and carrots etc, is nearly as bad as drinking soda pops, according to mercola (although he refers to fruit juices, same thing if its beets and/or carrots). also in chinese medicine, which has at least 5000 years experience, they insist that too much raw weakens the spleen/pancreas meridian. i certainly would never use it regularly at very least. its not food, and whilst the vit c rush can be nice, it's too much too fast i think. folk with digestive upset will tolerate raw even less well. my bro felt ill from juicing, salads make my sis ill, and having researched and watched and listened to folk on health forums, i go with the chinese.

that said some folk may be able to do nothing but gain from juicing. i feel that if your diet is right for you then detoxing, which i guess is what you wish to get from juicing, should occur anyway.

Hmmm where to start? Juicing like any tool should not be a blindly-applied thing... my wife and I both tend to move into something then study the results. We've dipped in and out of a number of things over these last three years... we keep what works and jettison what doesn't... we try and keep it focused on "diet" as the primary.. so food is the thing that we're exploring the most... Juicing is clearly not the end-all by any means... it does have it's issues, it does have it's benefits... right now we are exploring it's benefits, and we're watching...

Basically green juicing is like the salad without the fiber.. and fruit juicing is the fruit without the pulp... In both cases they are "very well" chewed to the point that we would have to eat several of any one fruit or vegetables in order to get the equivalent nutrient exposure out of any one item that's been juiced. While, the body doesn't digest fiber, so the one part of both that's less helpful has been extracted from the mix... (the fiber is mostly used as food for both the helpful and non-helpful bacteria that tend to live in our gut.)

Thus to juice is essentially the same thing as eating the produce only the masticating process has effectively been by-passed.

So logically if we shouldn't juice fresh fruits or vegetables, then we also shouldn't be eating them as well?

As to the sugar issue it appears that this can be mitigated to some degree... and I've come to deeply admire this apparent fix... raw egg yoke... as I mentioned in a previous post it seems the fats in raw egg yoke, having been mixed among the fruit sugars, tend to slow down it's digestion, effectively dampening the sugar-rush aspects... My wife has been checking her blood sugars (as a nurse she spent two years as a diabetic educator) and consistently she's clocking-in around 98 two hours after our carrot/apple juice/egg yoke each morning... Three years ago she was verifiability pre-diabetic... so if anyone would spike it would be her.. and yet hardly a whisper... works for me.. :^)

While the veggy green juices have less such to worry about...

So nutrient density, easy on the digestive system, and the lacking of any noticeable sugar spiking via the glucometer... and we're feeling most refreshed having gone there... not bad so far... :^)

Now unlike the movie we're not living off the stuff... right now we're eating a large salad for lunch with a bit of chicken thrown-in.. and at some point along the way we drink a tall glass of broth made from organically raised chickens.. that last one was inspired by Natasha Campbell-Mcbride... and with this we're still customizing as we're moved... Neither my wife and I are locked into any one approach and we love turning the dials as our appetite and insight so moves us...

As it stands at the moment, of all the things we've done to date, this one has been among the more fun and nutritionally most helpful ... :^)

[Metropolis]

Originally Posted by StephenK

We just started our first run at this the other day when my wife called in sick from work with a cold... after the first day of juicing she was completely over it! :^) We actually earmarked juicing as a means of dealing with all future colds!

Thanks for all the detailed information! We are still feeling our way around this and figure we'll be something of experts on the process after we've totally blown it a bunch!! :^) I completely understand the onion thingy! We made one juice with a bit of onion and will not likely repeat that one!

Our favorite so far is the good ol Gerson Apple and Carrot juice... we tried it with a little bit of beet added to it this morning and still found it to be rather pleasant. My wife was concerned about the sugars in both the apple and carrots combined and I found something that we're trying that's suppose to help mitigate this... it seems that if you mix in a raw (organic :^) egg yoke then the fats in the yoke will offset the sugars, as well as deliver a ton of nutrients... we'll be trying this a bit with our fruitier juices and see how that works... We're still working around the coffee aspect of this... we really like our morning coffee (still fluid?) but we did add the hot water and lemon juice as our morning start-up fluid...

We're essentially using this first run-through on juicing as a means of scouting the process. We figure over time we can deepen it as we further adjust our sea legs...

What kind of juicer are you using? We picked up an Omega Juicer from Mercola.com some time ago.. they had/still have it for $235US with free shipping, while everyone else has raised the price for same to $259 or more. I think they call this a Masticating juicer... it chews rather than spins and only turns at around 80rpm... the pulp comes out pretty dry so we seem to be getting the most out of our produce. The spinning kind are usually cheaper but when the extra produce needed is factored-in the cost of the less expensive ones can go up pretty quickly... particularly when one is doing as much juicing as we're starting to do! :^)

Thanks again for your response Metropolis! This stuff is fun and dern healthy!! :^)

Hi Stephen

How’s your juicing going? Well, I hope.

I’m using a centrifugal juicer. I’ve had it for a while, but it was hardly ever used prior to the 8 week juice and plant diet that I did back in October. It’s not a top of the range juicer by any means - most likely it'd fall into the 'cheap and cheerful' category As I've had it so long, I can't recall how much I paid for it. The pulp does seem to come out pretty dry, although for leafy greens it’s not so good. I understand that masticating models are much better for those types of veggies. I am considering purchasing a masticating type, as I do intend to make juicing a regular part of my diet.

An interesting tip about incorporating an egg yolk to offset the sugars, I’d not heard that before. I try to use 80% veg 20% fruit in my juices; although my first juice of the day is usually heavier on the fruit, so I think I’ll try the egg yolk in that one.

Originally Posted by Metropolis

Hi Stephen
How’s your juicing going? Well, I hope.

Juicing is going just peachie! We started wheat grass juicing two days ago and I just finished juicing some a few minutes ago... my wife fell instantly in love with it... (once she got past the taste) she insists that it's eliminated a few nighttime aches and pains that she hadn't been able to shake until now.

This is one of the advantages of the masticating juicers... they do a wonderful job of juicing these more hard to juice items. And they really do a great job on leafy greens! If you plan on juicing from here-on you simply can't go wrong with these incredibly efficient machines!

Originally Posted by Metropolis

An interesting tip about incorporating an egg yolk to offset the sugars, I’d not heard that before. I try to use 80% veg 20% fruit in my juices; although my first juice of the day is usually heavier on the fruit, so I think I’ll try the egg yolk in that one.

Another nice thing is that you can't taste the egg yoke! And, as well as the good healthful fats, what a really nice vitamin exposure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_yolk
All of the fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E, and K) are found in the egg yolk. Egg yolk is one of the few foods naturally containing vitamin D.

I had been trying to find a way to slip raw egg yokes into our diet without having to deal with the egg yoke on it's own... I was very tickled to find out about this fix! :^)

Okay, I juice all the time, but as for a plain juicing diet

Don't do it!!!! Don't do it!!!

Juice fasting for weight loss is a sure way to mess up the metabolism and you'll get even more fat!

This is one of the WORST health myths out there! Cleansing is unhealthy unless you are in dire need of it - it wipes out all of the good bacterias and good things in your body.

Even if you are juicing for health, you need to have other vital nutrients in your diet or else you will get malnutrition.

First, what are Vegetables and Fruits?

Vegetables and fruits are simple carbohydrates.
What are simple carbs? In brief they only fuel your body for about 20 minutes - they are quick to digest, this means they are NOT enough for you to live off of alone. They won't give you enough nutrients and they definitely will leave you in nutrient deficiency.

The nutrients in veggies and fruits are for CLEANSING. Not weight loss and health. They are to help cleanse the liver during a normal diet.
This is why your diet is supposed to consist of more than just fruits and vegetables, or else you are going to get very sick with nutrient deficiency...

You still need complex carbohydrates. These take the form of pastas, breads, rice, potatoes. These are good for you because they fuel your body for a longer amount of time.

You need carbs, because carbs are your bodies main source of fuel. Obviously.

But you don't want to be eating simple and complex carbs in the form of unhealthy processed things like white flour, sugars, or any of that gross stuff.

The next main source of fuel is Fat.

The reason why most people are so FAT these days, is because they are cutting out healthy fats in their diets, and they are also cutting out carbs. No wonder people are so fat these days. When you are deprived of nutrients properly balanced in your diet, you get fat, just like you do when you skip meals.
Obviously if you are not eating enough fat in your diet, your body is going to store fat in your body.
And if you are skipping meals for a bunch of days doing a cleanse - you are only going to get more fat as soon as you start to eat again.

A diet on just veggies and fruits, is NOT going to help you lose weight. It's going to cleanse your body. You need to get enough healthy fats in your diet, like coconut oil, ect. and eat properly and hit the gym if you want to lose weight.

You also need Protein. But your body does not actually use this as fuel - it is just used for your muscle tissues. You actually don't need much protein.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Ciqala

Juice fasting for weight loss is a sure way to mess up the metabolism and you'll get even more fat!

You still need... pastas, breads, rice, potatoes.

A diet on just veggies and fruits, is NOT going to help you lose weight.

So much of this is just not correct at all. I started with a juice fast over two years ago, and then continued on with a veg/fruit/grain juice diet. I haven't eaten solid foods in two years -- I juice/liquify everything. I lost 100 lbs, got down to my ideal weight, and continue to maintain that weight. AND I'm the healthiest I've been in many years.

I eat brown rice in my liquid diet. But I would seriously recommend to anyone to stay away from pasta, breads and potatoes if they want to lose weight... unless you're extremely active or working out each day.

Originally Posted by Ciqala

Okay, I juice all the time, but as for a plain juicing diet
Don't do it!!!! Don't do it!!!

Love your passion! And I easily agree with many of the points in your post... the fat issue is critically important!
I'll even support your observations with the following links and info:

Mercola does a great job at making this clear so I'll bounce over to his site to retrieve the following list of the best of the clean fats to use:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/12/28/what-you-dont-know-about-fats.aspx
Olives and Olive oil
Coconuts and coconut oil
Butter made from raw grass-fed organic milk Raw
nuts, such as, almonds or pecans
Organic pastured egg yolks
Avocados
Grass fed meats
Palm oil
Unheated organic nut oils

As to the carbs, tread carefully...

http://www.mercola.com/nutritionplan/beginner_carbs.htm
...then you will also want to consider eliminating the following additional grains:
Spelt... Barley... Amaranth... Millet... Oats... Rice... Quinoa... Teff...
Potatoes (this is actually a vegetable, but it digests more like a grain)
Corn (this is considered a vegetable, but is technically a grain)

Highly processed grain-based products are not recommended, regardless of insulin level. These include:
Breads Pasta.... Cereal.... Bagels.... French Fries... Chips... Pretzels... Waffles.... Pancakes.... Baked goods

-------
As to the juicing itself I'll reference the following:

Study Shows People Who Did This to Their Food Dropped Four Times the Pounds
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/07/02/cherie-calbom-on-juicing-part-1.aspx
-------

And then the inclusion of probiotics is also essential for the following expressed reasons:

One of The Most Important Supplements You Can Take
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/24/one-of-the-most-important-steps-you-can-take-to-improve-your-health.aspx

------

Juicing, by itself, is not the way to live..... our nutritional requirements are not fully covered by this approach exclusively. But for cleansing purposes, and as a wonderful supplement, it doesn't get much better than this...

As to our overall diet itself I just found this book, bought it via Kindle, that looks to cover most of the ground that I've been studying over the years in relation to a deeply-healthy, diet-based approach:

Perfect Health Diet by Paul and Shou-Ching Jaminet

Mercola recommends it, and I can clearly see why... and I feel you will also be intrigued by this read.... There is much to be considered when it comes to our dietary exposure.... and thankfully we have some great helpful resources to now draw on....

Again, love your post! Thank you for expressing it so energetically! :^)

Originally Posted by Baile

So much of this is just not correct at all. I started with a juice fast over two years ago, and then continued on with a veg/fruit/grain juice diet. I haven't eaten solid foods in two years -- I juice/liquify everything. I lost 100 lbs, got down to my ideal weight, and continue to maintain that weight. AND I'm the healthiest I've been in many years.

I eat brown rice in my liquid diet. But I would seriously recommend to anyone to stay away from pasta, breads and potatoes if they want to lose weight... unless you're extremely active or working out each day.

Now this is cool! I love reading from those who have pushed it this far! I was reading from one doctor (I don't have the book right now, seems I left it in my wifes car, she's at work) that had his patient on nothing but carrot juice for a full year. He did so to address an advanced case of colon cancer. He only supplemented with chlorophyll tablets.. and that was it... the cancer cleared up completely, and his health actually improved greatly!

The only caveat that I would add to this, and this same doctor agrees, that "in the long run" there's a need for more balance. You're addressing some of that balance by the choices you seem to be making in your juicing habits... the thing to be most watchful for is what happens around year 3 to year 5. We seem to have a lot of built-in reserves that take years to deplete... but once those run out we begin experiencing problems that reflect this depletion. This is how vegans, raw foodist, and fruitarians can cruise for some time after their transition... and yet years down the road start running into real problems yet again.

You can still add healthy fats (stay away from overly processed vegetable oils) to your juices and that will clearly help.. and mixing up the vegies and fruits that you're drinking is most helpful as well.

I just wanted to point this out so if problems do arise then you can look over the approach again and then fine tune it accordingly...

I'm really glad that you posted about your experience with this... it's most clear that we have a lot of flex-room when it comes to designing a diet that will cover most bases... and it's really cool to see that you've pushed the envelope and are experiencing such a pleasurable outcome! :^)

[Baile]

Originally Posted by StephenK

You can still add healthy fats (stay away from overly processed vegetable oils) to your juices and that will clearly help.. and mixing up the vegies and fruits that you're drinking is most helpful as well.

Hi Stephen, thanks for that upbeat, positive reply. I do include oil in my diet: I make blended soups and always add a teaspoon of cold-pressed olive oil with very bowl. Not sure if that qualifies as processed vegetable oil; everything I read about olive oil suggests it's a positive addition to my diet.

You speak of my pushing boundaries. For me, it's just my dietary lifestyle now. I'll guess we'll see down the road, but right now I just don't see myself going back to a solid food diet. I had an eating addiction or disorder; I just ate and ate and ate, that's how I gained all that weight. It's the same with alcohol, tobacco and coffee: I quit those years ago and I just can't afford to ever try them again. I know there's a good chance I'd start right back up again with them.

Originally Posted by Baile

Hi Stephen, thanks for that upbeat, positive reply. I do include oil in my diet: I make blended soups and always add a teaspoon of cold-pressed olive oil with very bowl. Not sure if that qualifies as processed vegetable oil; everything I read about olive oil suggests it's a positive addition to my diet.

Extra virgin Olive oil is clearly among the best! Extra Virgin Coconut oil would be a good choice as well! :^)

Originally Posted by Baile

You speak of my pushing boundaries. For me, it's just my dietary lifestyle now. I'll guess we'll see down the road, but right now I just don't see myself going back to a solid food diet. I had an eating addiction or disorder; I just ate and ate and ate, that's how I gained all that weight. It's the same with alcohol, tobacco and coffee: I quit those years ago and I just can't afford to ever try them again. I know there's a good chance I'd start right back up again with them.

One of the things that the newer health gurus are recommending we do..if we still feel we're vulnerable to backsliding.. is to drift a bit back into our old ways and then observe closely what happens. For many the original symptoms they were fighting will start returning... that alone is usually convincing enough to bring us back into our more healthful habits! If you live in fear of such a thing then you could resolve this by facing it head-on!... then again, you may not need to... My wife and I have experimented with all sorts of differing approaches to a healthful way of living... one thing is certain for both of us... we will never go back to what we grew-up doing... that old way is over... so while the healthful diet that we're building will likely keep changing for some time to come... the idea that we would make ourselves sick again, and then die an early, ugly, death, is out of the question... we feel way to good since shifting toward health in this way.... I suspect the same would be a solid for you as well...! :^)