What is it about Gurus ?

[Kiran]

Originally Posted by Dream Angel

What is it about Gurus ( most of whom seem to come from India ) that so many people from the West follow their every word or bit of advice with blind obedience and devotion?

Not meaning any disrespect, but did they eat from a special tree of knowledge or what ?

What makes what they say, any different from what someone you meet wherever, has to say ? Just because they come from India ? How come one never hears of a Guru from Alaska ? ( just a random choice ) ... or maybe a warmer place ?

If one listens to some of what is being said by a Guru, talk of love, compassion etc... one could hear the same thing, sometimes not always ... from someone who gets a bit sentimental & philosophical , after one too many glasses of wine . Isn't wine a drink of the gods ?

just wondering.......

Dream Angel xx

My guru came from Mexico but his teachers were from India, so... more of the same

I agree with Xan in his first reply. People follow them because they can lead you to experience and know the wisdom and knowledge that is already there, hidden in yourself, in the deep silence of the heart...

[Arcturus]

http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Ma..._gurutruth.htm


Jiddu Krishnamurti on need of Guru - Can truth be found through another

Question: You say that gurus are unnecessary, but how can I find truth without the wise help and guidance which only a guru can give?

Jiddu Krishnamurt i: The question is whether a guru is necessary or not, Can truth be found through another? Some say it can and some say it cannot. We want to know the truth of this, not my opinion as against the opinion of another. I have no opinion in this matter. Either it is so or it is not. Whether it is essential that you should or should not have a guru is not a quest1on of opinion. The truth of the matter is not dependent on opinion, however profound, erudite, popular, universal. The truth of the matter is to be found out, in fact.

First of all, why do we want a guru? We say we need a guru because we are confused and the guru is helpful; he will point out what truth is, he will help us to understand, he knows much more about life than we do, he will act as a father, as a teacher to instruct us in life; he has vast experience and we have but little; he will help us through his greater experience and so on and on. That is, basically, you go to a teacher because you are confused. If you were clear, you would not go near a guru.

Obviously if you were profoundly happy, if there were no problems, if you understood life completely, you would not go to any guru. I hope you see the significance of this. Because you are confused, you seek out a teacher. You go to him to give you a way of life to clarify your own confusion, to find truth. You choose your guru because you are confused and you hope he will give you what you ask. That is you choose a guru who will satisfy your demand; you choose according to the gratification he will give you and your choice is dependent on your gratification.

You do not choose a guru who says, ''Depend on yourself; you choose him according to your prejudices. So since you choose your guru according to the gratification he gives you, you are not seeking truth but a way out of confusion; and the way out of confusion is mistakenly called truth.

Let us examine first this idea that a guru can clear up our confusion. Can anyone clear up our confusion? - confusion being the product of our responses. We have created it. Do you think someone else has created it - this misery, this battle at all levels of existence, within and without? It is the result of our own lack of knowledge of ourselves. It is because we do not understand ourselves, our conflicts, our responses, our miseries, that we go to a guru whom we think will help us to be free of that confusion.

We can understand ourselves only in relationship to the present; and that relationship itself is the guru not someone outside. If I do not understand that relationship, whatever a guru may say is useless, because if I do not understand relationship, my relationship to property, to people, to ideas, who can resolve the conflict within me? To resolve that conflict, I must understand it myself, which means I must be aware of myself in relationship. To be aware, no guru is necessary. If I do not know myself, of what use is a guru? As a political leader is chosen by those who are in confusion and whose choice therefore is also confused, so I choose a guru. I can choose him only according to my confusion; hence he, like the political leader, is confused.

What is important is not who is right - whether I am right or whether those are right who say a guru is necessary; to find out why you need a guru is important. Gurus exist for exploitation of various kinds, but that is irrelevant. It gives you satisfaction if someone tells you how you are progressing, but to find out why you need a guru - there lies the key. Another can point out the way but you have to do all the work, even if you have a guru. Because you do not want to face that, you shift the responsibility to the guru.

The guru becomes useless when there is a particle of self-knowledge. No guru, no book or scripture, can give you self-knowledge: it comes when you are aware of yourself in relationship. To be, is to be related; not to understand relationship is misery, strife. Not to be aware of your relationship to property is one of the causes of confusion. If you do not know your right relationship to property there is bound to be conflict, which increases the conflict in society.

If you do not understand the relationship between yourself and your wife, between yourself and your child, how can another resolve the conflict arising out of that relationship? Similarly with ideas, beliefs and so on. Being confused in your relationship with people, with property, with ideas, you seek a guru. If he is a real guru, he will tell you to understand yourself. You are the source of all misunderstanding and confusion; and you can resolve that conflict only when you understand yourself in relationship.

You cannot find truth through anybody else. How can you? Truth is not something static; it has no fixed abode; it is not an end, a goal. On the contrary, it is living, dynamic, alert, alive. How can it be an end? If truth is a fixed point it is no longer truth; it is then a mere opinion. Truth is the unknown, and a mind that is seeking truth will never find it, for mind is made up of the known, it is the result of the past, the outcome of time - which you can observe for yourself. Mind is the instrument of the known, hence it cannot find the unknown; it can only move from the known to the known.

When the mind seeks truth, the truth it has read about in books, that 'truth' is self-projected; for then the mind is merely in pursuit of the known, a more satisfactory known than the previous one. When the mind seeks truth, it is seeking its own self-projection, not truth. After all, an ideal is self-projected; it is fictitious, unreal. What is real is what is, not the opposite. But a mind that is seeking reality, seeking God, is seeking the known. When you think of God, your God is the projection of your own thought, the result of social influences. You can think only of the known; you cannot think of the unknown, you cannot concentrate on truth.

The moment you think of the unknown, it is merely the self-projected known. God or truth cannot be thought about. If you think about it, it is not truth. Truth cannot be sought: it comes to you. You can go only after what is known. When the mind is not tortured by the known, by the effects of the known, then only can truth reveal itself. Truth is in every leaf, in every tear; it is to be known from moment to moment. No one can lead you to truth; and if anyone leads you, it can only be to the known.

Truth can only come to the mind that is empty of the known. It comes in a state in which the known is absent, not functioning. The mind is the warehouse of the known, the residue of the known; for the mind to be in that state in which the unknown comes into being, it must be aware of itself, of its previous experiences, the conscious as well as the unconscious, of its responses, reactions, and structure. When there is complete self-knowledge, then there is the ending of the known, then the mind is completely empty of the known. It is only then that truth can come to you uninvited.

Truth does not belong to you or to me. You cannot worship it. The moment it is known, it is unreal. The symbol is not real, the image is not real; but when there is the understanding of self, the cessation of self, then eternity comes into being.

excuse that lack of personal input. still, i think this puts it how i feel it.

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by astroboy

Guru is simply wisdom which breaks you away from the illusionary belief/cultural dogma. Therefore scriptures can be the perfect Guru because that does away with serving the perishable physical body.

Yes its the same thing, but also there are many that worship the scriptures, they will argue over it being right, and even kill over it.

"Guru" is just an Indian word for teacher... It's also where we got our own word for teacher. So they are called Guru because they teach...

They touch certain people, and certain people will call them false. No matter who you are, there will be critics. Look at the teachers throughout history. Most weren't honored until they were dead.

[Xan]

Guru is a name for a spiritual teacher but not all teachers are gurus, by far.

In Sanskrit guru means someone who can take you from Darkness to Light, which goes way beyond teaching and is more about their fully aware presence than anything else.


Xan

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by Dream Angel

What is it about Gurus ( most of whom seem to come from India ) that so many people from the West follow their every word or bit of advice with blind obedience and devotion?

Not meaning any disrespect, but did they eat from a special tree of knowledge or what ?

What makes what they say, any different from what someone you meet wherever, has to say ? Just because they come from India ? How come one never hears of a Guru from Alaska ? ( just a random choice ) ... or maybe a warmer place ?

If one listens to some of what is being said by a Guru, talk of love, compassion etc... one could hear the same thing, sometimes not always ... from someone who gets a bit sentimental & philosophical , after one too many glasses of wine . Isn't wine a drink of the gods ?

just wondering.......

Dream Angel xx

Many people especially monks claims to be " guru" , or " master" and have confident to call and allow others to call them as " master" , Venerable or teacher especially in regards to Buddhism.....
until now I really cant understand HOW buddhism can be taught and how can one claim to know they understand themselve better than others .......I really hope any member here could show me ......I had forward this question to many monks but they seems to ignor it and prefer to enjoy themselves as ' teacher"......
Thks
CSEe

[CSEe]

In my current understanding , we can have Guru in regards to " knowl;edge" , skill like in sport , in education even in sex but especially Buddhism all beings is of same and equal including Mr Siddharta or Dalai Lama . Dalai Lama in regard to Buddhism to me is of SAME and EQUAL with OSAMA Bin LADEN , same as Hilter , same as the ant in the garden , same as you , same as the pen on my table ....a being in their own process of purification . I hope to learn common sense of the different and I hope someone here could share their awareness with me .
Thks
CSEe

[psychoslice]

A true Guru doesn't claim to have anything that you already haven't got, all he or she does is point you to your true inner Being, and there you must find for yourself who you truly are, as they themselves have.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

My thoughts:
People go to these born-again Christian rallies and faint asthe preacher waves his hand over their heads. People go to rock concerts andfaint and cry uncontrollably when the Beatles or Michael Jackson would comeout.

Maybe the “power” felt by the Guru falls into this category.I think it does, although I am not exactly sure what is happening. I do thinkit best not to jump to conclusions and I also think it helpful to ask myselfwhy I may have jumped to such conclusions....if it had been me....and it has at times.
To me that is growth………………..James

Hi James, long time...
Since I have been slain in the spirit when Baptised in the Holy Spirit , tho I didn't know that was what was happening till I read about the ''symptoms'' in some random book, and have been effected tremendously by my old Guru many a time...
(but not by the Beatles) again I must say, guilless openness to what was happening, with deliberate concentration and focus 'allowed' my altered states.

....

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Sybilline

"Guru" is just an Indian word for teacher... It's also where we got our own word for teacher. So they are called Guru because they teach...

Hi Sybilline,

Actually, Xan is correct - one that can take you from darkness to light...not just a teacher.

There are Masters, Swamis, Yogis and Saddhus, Sat Gurus, Perfect Masters, Avatars and Gurus and many more names ---
it would be difficult without a knowledgeable Indian/Hindu to explain all these titles.

Most are bestowed, I believe...
by the previous Guru of some "Lineage" or maybe even by the followers that recognize the
transfer of 'power' themselves.

Just what I have gathered.