What is the Truth?

[Blue Tiger]

The most difficult part of truth is to realize there is no Truth.

Truth is highly subjective, unless you are observing unemotional fact, such as "I drank a cup of coffee." That is truth, because is was observable by minds that had no subjective interest.

But spiritual Truth is not observable. What one person understands and accepts as Truth is highly personal. Makes their beliefs no less Truth though, any more than it negates the next person's Truth. Quite likely all these smaller personal Truths at some point converge to form a supremely large Universal Truth, but I doubt the human mind is in any state to comprehend Universal Truth, if it actually exists.

I certainly have no delusion that my Truth is or should be anyone else's Truth.

Just my thoughts.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by markings

Meister Eckhart says so, and so does Dogen and essentially the whole of Zen. Two different traditions, the same conclusion.

markings, is an apple cut in half, two of the same thing? Or is one half different from the other somehow? The key to examining those two halves is to not get stuck on the similarities, but to also look closely at what it is that makes them different.

Getting stuck in a singular either/or perspective, is fundamentalism. Reflecting on other truths that are equally valid, is wisdom.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Blue Tiger

The most difficult part of truth is to realize there is no Truth.

You are describing what in Hermetic terms is called relative truth. Relative truth is individual truth, yes. Hermeticism also identifies something called absolute truth, which is different. Absolute truth has to do with truths pertaining to Spirit and our collective human hierarchy.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Blue Tiger

I doubt the human mind is in any state to comprehend Universal Truth, if it actually exists.

That is assuming of course that the 'Universal Truth' is a thing which the human mind can comprehend.

Of course I'm basing this on my own account, but the realisation of an Ultimate Truth goes beyond the mind, beyond all rational thought, beyond perspective or perception and beyond any sensory input. That's why it's so difficult to explain or express.

One could say it's a 'heart thing' but even that is a crude explanation. It's something that is intuited..it's something that takes an awareness that exists outside the confines of the mind, so for people using the mind to try and understand it or explain it, would be like explaining the colour 'red' to a person who has been blind since birth by saying 'that's what colour roses are'.

[markings]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Who is that bolded 'we' you are referring to then?

A rhetorical question I assume.

[markings]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Okay, I'll get serious and play hard-ball now.

Once the ultimate realisation has been attained, there isn't a 'nothing' nor an 'everything' because even those are relative, dualistic terms.

Nothing implies the lack of something, whilst everything implies a lack of nothing.

There is no experiencer, no experience... there isn't a 'nothing' nor is there an 'everything'.. and if I had to even come up with any kind of word for it I shall borrow a Buddhist one and call it Tathātā or 'suchness' or 'thusness'.

...and yes, been there, done that, got T-shirt etc

So there is nothing to say, but if you have to say something then say it as it is, which you do here, every time.

Why support ideas and concepts which only make us deviate from 'suchness'?

[markings]

Originally Posted by Blue Tiger

I certainly have no delusion that my Truth is or should be anyone else's Truth.

I have no delusion that my Truth is my Truth. It is not resembling anything worth to be called Truth. Too many factors adulterate my experience and my thoughts. To even say that this would be my Truth is preposterous.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by markings

So there is nothing to say, but if you have to say something then say it as it is, which you do here, every time.

Why support ideas and concepts which only make us deviate from 'suchness'?

Yes, I am saying it as it is. So what seems to be the nature of your contradictory retort?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by markings

A rhetorical question I assume.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Visitor

Spiritually, what is the Truth?

For me, the answer to this question would be that the only truth to be found in this question lies within the question itself.
In other words all there is to gain from the question is understanding why you ask.