Is our version of god mostly in-house?

[Shivani Devi]

Let's see here...

I totally and unconditionally love the whole 'concept' of the Hindu Divinity Siva, even though this 'concept' has both internally and externally manifested many times through its own volition.

He definitely believes in me more than I believe in Him (He just told me so).

Through that unconditional love, I have fully surrendered my ego, heart, soul and everything that was His already back to the source from whence it came and felt that love return to me, until I became so lost in Siva, that breath, time, everything stood still...yet I didn't become that...nor merge into that...everything just was that, totally independent from what I was and yet the awareness of self was non-existent as was the awareness of Siva.

I came out of it totally in bliss, regenerated, renewed and with more love for Siva (in Divine manifestation) than I ever felt possible.

This has happened to me 4 times in the past year.

I had previously thought there was only two types of Samadhi - Savikalpa and Nirvikalpa...the other day, I leaned of a third one...Bhava Samadhi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhava_samadhi

So, who cares if Siva is 'in-house'? He is in the house of my heart and that's all that matters.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Let's see here...

I totally and unconditionally love the whole 'concept' of the Hindu Divinity Siva, even though this 'concept' has both internally and externally manifested many times through its own volition.

You have had very real spiritual experiences, which you personally (mentally) conceptualized as having something to do with what you mentally image-in to be an 'entity' which you 'picture' and 'label' as Shiva, IMO.

Others (like me) have to personally 'translate' your 'mental' symbolisms into something which makes sense to us on the basis of what we have image-in-ed and experienced. Not everyone is 'adept' at such 'translating'.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

You have had very real spiritual experiences, which you personally (mentally) conceptualized as having something to do with what you mentally image-in to be an 'entity' which you 'picture' and 'label' as Shiva, IMO.

Thank you, David but please take the rest of that post into consideration before you think that.

As you have said to me before, maybe it's a past-life thing because from the first time I saw an image of Siva as a young child, my whole world turned upside-down and I was changed forever.

I understand that Siva exists as much as I know that my own soul/Atman does and I know that my own Jivatman is the essence of Paramatman which is (Sada)Siva.

Did I translate the experience or did the experience self-translate? either way, but to say I translated it as Siva, means that Siva exists beyond my translation of Him - which He does anyway.

Do you exist, David? does anybody exist? because Siva is also as real to me (if not more real) than another person is. He is God, but also a man - God both in human form and totally beyond form and I have experienced Siva on every level of my being, right to my very core.

By saying 'Is our version of god mostly in-house?' we can ask 'Is our version of David mostly in-house?' 'Is our version of Necro mostly in-house?' 'Is our version of SF mostly in-house?'

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Others (like me) have to personally 'translate' your 'mental' symbolisms into something which makes sense to us on the basis of what we have image-in-ed and experienced. Not everyone is 'adept' at such 'translating'.

However, you are very correct there. Even the more adept among you still have me going "nope, that ain't it either". So is our version of God in-house? according to others, yes but according to ourselves, who cares?

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Looking at your age, you are two years younger than myself. I was curious.

As I get older, I realise that all personal truths are totally relative. It is what led to the election of the current US president (re: alternative facts).

I also learned that people will believe whatever they want about anything and climate change is the perfect example.

Some can see the immediate effects backed up with a century's worth of statistical data, and others cannot see any change at all, saying "show me the records for 500 years ago!" however, the disbelief has more of a political agenda so as not to ratify any other country's protocols regarding it.

Some believe the earth is flat, some believe and act as if Christianity IS religion and condemn all religion in the name of Christianity, saying "religion is responsible for massive genocide and persecutions" without using the word 'Abrahamic' and so, I say "Hinduism and Buddhism are both religions the last time I looked".

Some believe the new era of spiritual salvation is upon us, when there's no real global evidence of it apart from "people are more disenchanted with organised Christianity than ever before" as a basis for that belief.

Then, there are those who will say "non-duality" is the true path and "duality" is the false one as if the two were somehow mutually exclusive and 'true' and 'false' is a dual dichotomy within itself.

Then others will say "your God is yours and my God is mine" when God is God and how can there be a 'my God" and a "your God?" so, is our version of God mostly in-house? while ever there exists a 'version' of God, then It is in-house, however, when there's an invariant concept of the omniscient and omnipresent almighty, it's pretty much a universal nomenclature.

The aspect of variability can lead to invariability and then according to others the version is 'in-house' because it's experiential, but according to the experiencer, it is absolutum in toto and can be anything and everything it presents itself to be.

my lesson this quarter is that no matter how compelling I might find what I believe, if I say what I belive it will just be considered noise by everyone else because *everyone* finds what they believe compelling and to the extent that what others believes contradict it, what the others believe will just be completely ignored. But who (if anyone) actually has the truth I don't know.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

Thank you, David but please take the rest of that post into consideration before you think that.

As you have said to me before, maybe it's a past-life thing because from the first time I saw an image of Siva as a young child, my whole world turned upside-down and I was changed forever.

I understand that Siva exists as much as I know that my own soul/Atman does and I know that my own Jivatman is the essence of Paramatman which is (Sada)Siva.

Did I translate the experience or did the experience self-translate? either way, but to say I translated it as Siva, means that Siva exists beyond my translation of Him - which He does anyway.

Do you exist, David? does anybody exist? because Siva is also as real to me (if not more real) than another person is. He is God, but also a man - God both in human form and totally beyond form and I have experienced Siva on every level of my being, right to my very core.

By saying 'Is our version of god mostly in-house?' we can ask 'Is our version of David mostly in-house?' 'Is our version of Necro mostly in-house?' 'Is our version of SF mostly in-house?'

Ideas and language are 'in the eye/ear of the beholder/hearer' kinds of thangs. Please know that I totally 'resonate' with the truth of what you said.

Your experience was/is 'real', IMO. Its just that 'reality' is so 'fluid' that someone else having the same kind of (nothing is ever the same!) experience might have it in relation to a Christ or some other 'godly'-entity 'figure'.

We 'need' (because of our 'history') to 'see' things (mentally) in terms which we are family-ar with in order to to 'comprehend' them, IMO. Hence the various image-'clothings' (plural!) of 'reality' which is really in'visible', tho quite REAL!

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Ideas and language are 'in the eye/ear of the beholder/hearer' kinds of thangs. Please know that I totally 'resonate' with the truth of what you said.

Your experience was/is 'real', IMO. Its just that 'reality' is so 'fluid' that someone else having the same kind of (nothing is ever the same!) experience might have it in relation to a Christ or some other 'godly'-entity 'figure'.

We 'need' (because of our 'history') to 'see' things (mentally) in terms which we are family-ar with in order to to 'comprehend' them, IMO. Hence the various image-'clothings' (plural!) of 'reality' which is really in'visible', tho quite REAL!

Something happened today...something so amazingly awesome!

As I was looking up quotes today, I found something very unexpectedly and I knew...I just knew! The connection was immediate and instantaneous. Never felt anything like this before - besides what I feel for Siva:



After so long, it has been found and I am ecstatic.

This is Lord Siva in direct action, leading me to my Guru.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

my lesson this quarter is that no matter how compelling I might find what I believe, if I say what I belive it will just be considered noise by everyone else because *everyone* finds what they believe compelling and to the extent that what others believes contradict it, what the others believe will just be completely ignored. But who (if anyone) actually has the truth I don't know.

So, are we moving towards an era where language and the requirement to communicate will become totally irrelevant and have some of us just discovered this a bit prematurely?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

So, are we moving towards an era where language and the requirement to communicate will become totally irrelevant and have some of us just discovered this a bit prematurely?

One has to look (and feel) 'deeper' than one's formulated beliefs, which as I have said, in my opinion are just emotionally-subscribed to mental constructions ... in order to (really ) appreciate and connect with/to the exquisite REALITY of their ISness, their true (real?) BEING.

What you are referencing as 'irrelevant' is the 'spinning of wheels' (and so going nowhere further) that characterizes so many (tho certainly not all here!) people's generally not 'seeing' or 'feeling' and so actually relating to the REALITY underneath the word-clothing which others display.

Language (thought, ideas, etc) will always provide 'clues' to facilitate the process of those who truely wish to ('detective'ly) 'know' and 'relate to' the REAL nature of the constellation of The Presence of Life (God, Shiva, Christ, Being, however you want to 'mentally' think of IT) in others (as well as oneself, if one examines one's own words and thoughts, I dare say).

I hear so many 'crying' about how they are not truly related to by others, while they themselves don't do so. As Gandhi said, You have to (first) be the change you 'wish' (or something like that )

To get 'deeper' (to become more 'deeply' related) one has to leave the 'island' of one's own self-and-reality 'definition' - de-finite-ion) and get into 'swimming' and 'diving deeper' in 'oceanic' (hence containing everyone else) waters.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by davidsun

One has to look (and feel) 'deeper' than one's formulated beliefs, which as I have said, in my opinion are just emotionally-subscribed to mental constructions ... in order to (really ) appreciate and connect with/to the exquisite REALITY of their ISness, their true (real?) BEING.

What you are referencing as 'irrelevant' is the 'spinning of wheels' (and so going nowhere further) that characterizes so many (tho certainly not all here!) people's generally not 'seeing' or 'feeling' and so actually relating to the REALITY underneath the word-clothing which others display.

Language (thought, ideas, etc) will always provide 'clues' to facilitate the process of those who truely wish to ('detective'ly) 'know' and 'relate to' the REAL nature of the constellation of The Presence of Life (God, Shiva, Christ, Being, however you want to 'mentally' think of IT) in others (as well as oneself, if one examines one's own words and thoughts, I dare say).

I hear so many 'crying' about how they are not truly related to by others, while they themselves don't do so. As Gandhi said, You have to (first) be the change you 'wish' (or something like that )

To get 'deeper' (to become more 'deeply' related) one has to leave the 'island' of one's own self-and-reality 'definition' - de-finite-ion) and get into 'swimming' and 'diving deeper' in 'oceanic' (hence containing everyone else) waters.

However, I still cannot seem to get past the nature of superficial contradiction that exists outside the full 'in house' awareness of a unified, non contradictory experience of consciousness.

It's like everything is totally unreal because only Siva is real. Nothing makes any sense to me because only Siva does. Everything is untrue because I stand in the presence of Satyam itself and nothing can be understood in the light of that awareness.

Sure, I have my moments where I let it slip a bit, let my 'guard down' as it were and then introspect, only to find that it has been a week since I last made the connection and it hasn't become 'second nature' to me yet. I'm still getting used to it until the 'bliss sticks' (as running would say).

Having said that, I feel I am going to be one of those who will remain in total equanimity about existence in general, whether it applies to myself or to others. It is what happens when an autistic person becomes God-realised. I didn't have many emotions to start with and after feeling total unconditional love for Siva, I don't think I would be able to feel mortal love ever again because I'd forever be seeking to make the comparison where none exists.

The best I could ever hope for is to lose all my remaining emotions (frustration, impatience and insecurity due to lack of acceptance) except for this love I feel for God and not try and learn or discover any new altruistic, empathetic or compassionate feelings because they are just not in my autistic nature anyway.

I was born an 'island unto myself' through no fault of my own. My parents then reinforced it through abuse (physical and sexual), confinement and social isolation, up until I was 16 so I never developed any social skills anyway, even if I was somehow able to.

Due to circumstance, I had nobody but Siva - no family (I was unwanted and unloved), no friends (I wasn't allowed to have them) and so I turned inward and relied upon myself for comfort, companionship and to find those answers I sought.

After I left home and got married, things didn't change much in the way I was treated. They say we choose our partners based on our early life because we know no better and this was certainly true for me. The only times I enjoyed was when I was at a Shiva temple singing His praises within a group of Shiva devotees because at least there was something in common.

Yes, I need to go and find some of these again in the 'real world' because online, they just do not exist (and with very good reason that I am just finding out myself now). I also like how we say the 'real world' or 'real life' as to distinguish that existence than the internet one. If 'real life' is 'real' that must mean the internet is somehow...not! but it's like Maya within the Maya eh?

So now you can see how nothing really applies to me in the 'normal' or what we call 'neurotypical' way of thinking. I totally exist in lateral thought and nothing follows a 'straight line' in my brain from cause to effect, means to end or subject to object because my mind doesn't work that way. I have no 'executive functioning' or 'theory of mind' whatsoever.

All I know is the love I feel for a Hindu deity called Siva and tonight, a few hours ago, I made the re-connect until the energies rose up my spine and exploded into my brain with the force of a small supernova, filling my head with blinding light and now, my awareness is swimming in fluid Consciousness, I feel like I am walking on 6ft foam rubber, grinning like a Cheshire cat with tears streaming down my face..."Aum Namah Shivaya" turned into "main tumse pyar kartha hoon"...and that's the best mantra out there.