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[Anala]

They can be like rocks set in concrete or the can be a leaf set on a stream. Sometimes they have an expiration date, as they should. IMO

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Beautiful!

You have fully captured the whole point and purpose of this exercise and apart from any differences and disagreements we may have had, we can still resonate on so many levels.

Thank you. And even after the disagreements there are still beautiful moments like this. Thank you for those too.

Originally Posted by hallow

That's true, but as a person grows and matures in every stage of life, hopes and dreams change. A healthy minded person will grow out of believing in Santa Claus. I understand as much as anyone the truth/reality can be nothing but hard and ugly but if you find hope somewhere even if it is myth it has done what it was Intended. If you're Jewish you probably don't believe in Santa Claus at all. You'll have a completely different set of beliefs. But it all serves the same reason. You notice most major holidays happen during the dark winter months? Maybe they were created us to help ourselves threw the hardest time of the year. But now I am getting way off topic of labels. But it's easy to see how labels can confuse some because of misinterpreting what is really ment to be.

Ackshully no, Hallow, you're not getting off topic. This is another are where the labels fall down in a few ways, one of them being that when you're an adult you love the childish stuff behind - the magic of Christmas has gone. The various traditions around Christmas and the 'Happy Holidays' comes from Saturnalia and similar traditions that were celebrated at the same time, around the Winter Solstice. The traditions are much the same because of something that's deeply embedded into the collective unconsciousness that's probably been around since caveman days, but because of the various labels we've lost hose understandings and connections. Certainly in Europe at the time the Winter Solstice was a dark time in so many ways, and that's still embedded in the collective unconsciousness of people whose ancestors emigrated outwards.

Today they call it Seasonal Adjustment Disorder and it's more apparent the further north you are. I'm in not-at-all-sunny Scotland where we have around 6 or so hours of daylight at the Solstice, and people are noticeably grumpier at that time of year. So because of the label of "I am Spiritual" we can lose all understanding of how we're still very much like our ancestors in so many ways.

Originally Posted by freebird

Thank you all three (Greenslade, Shivani and Hallow)
Obviously Santa Claus exists as 2 written words and in the imagination of people as well as unicorns, spirits or fairies which are considered to be myths. When I'm talking about Santa Claus I am reffering to the original one, not the ordinary grandpas disguised in a Santa Claus suit offering gifts to children.
But let's say someone believes in Santa, unicorns and fairies and someone does not. Can Santa Claus, unicorns and fairies exist for both people as a fact and not just as words?

You're missing the point there Freebird. The point of Chrimbo is not facts but of beliefs as much as the belief the Saviour was born on Christmas Day to take our sins away. The facts about Jesus' actual birth are lost in time and I'm not going to go into the history of it, but Jesus was born on the 25th of December because of the various Pagan festivals at that time. That's the damage labels do on a grander scale. Call him Santa Claus or Saint Nicholas or Juolopukki it doesn't matter. It's tradition. There was, once upon a time, a Santa-like figure across many cultures.

And I'll have you know grandpas aren't ordinary, and if you were one you'd understand why you were dressing up as Santa. So there. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. But it's not about facts, it's about beliefs and the Spirit of everything any kind of holiday at that time represents. Santa Claus is a personification of that consciousness, he represents children and gifts, the magic...... Facts be damned, because they are no substitutes for the wonderment of Santa. The kids know it's grandpa dressed up, does that stop them immersing themselves in the experience?

Fairies and possibly unicorns have their basis in Irish mythology, which has its basis in the Tautha de Danaan, which means the Children of Diana. The mythology is not limited to Ireland but is their 'version' of a global collective mythology that was common across world geography and time. Even the ancient Hindus used the very same myths and legends, albeit in a slightly different form. They were not myths though, they were real people like the Annunaki of Sumeria transformed into mythology and legend.

If you want to do facts, the fact is that Jesus was not born on Christmas Day. Some say April, some say November 11th - yep, 9/11, which is why that date was chosen. But that time of year for so many cultures and traditions all means the same thing, the advent of hope and the end of hardship, especially in more northern climes.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Ackshully no, Hallow, you're not getting off topic. This is another are where the labels fall down in a few ways, one of them being that when you're an adult you love the childish stuff behind - the magic of Christmas has gone. The various traditions around Christmas and the 'Happy Holidays' comes from Saturnalia and similar traditions that were celebrated at the same time, around the Winter Solstice. The traditions are much the same because of something that's deeply embedded into the collective unconsciousness that's probably been around since caveman days, but because of the various labels we've lost hose understandings and connections. Certainly in Europe at the time the Winter Solstice was a dark time in so many ways, and that's still embedded in the collective unconsciousness of people whose ancestors emigrated outwards.

Today they call it Seasonal Adjustment Disorder and it's more apparent the further north you are. I'm in not-at-all-sunny Scotland where we have around 6 or so hours of daylight at the Solstice, and people are noticeably grumpier at that time of year. So because of the label of "I am Spiritual" we can lose all understanding of how we're still very much like our ancestors in so many ways.

I haven't lost the Christmas spirit. It's still in me. I probably have more reasons not to have it then most but it's still there. I am very tied to nature and understand how it works. That itself makes me "spiritual" I feel blessed to live where I do. In the winter months we don't get much light here. Along with the cold and snow it can make a person feel trapped. But it's all I know so I am used to it. Maybe that's why the Christmas spirit lives on. Need something to look forward to. The last winter it got colder here than it was in the artic. That's very odd.

Originally Posted by hallow

I haven't lost the Christmas spirit. It's still in me. I probably have more reasons not to have it then most but it's still there. I am very tied to nature and understand how it works. That itself makes me "spiritual" I feel blessed to live where I do. In the winter months we don't get much light here. Along with the cold and snow it can make a person feel trapped. But it's all I know so I am used to it. Maybe that's why the Christmas spirit lives on. Need something to look forward to. The last winter it got colder here than it was in the artic. That's very odd.

Yeah, I can resonate with most of that Hallow. It;s interesting that after a Lifetime of not-so-good memories Christmas is taking on a different meaning. Although the climate has been changing here these past few years, historically winters full of cold and snow have been the norm. Gotta have something to warm the spirit on cold, dark nights. But the town is small, the air is certainly clean and fresh. Both open countryside and two coastlines meeting makes it a good place to be.

The last ice age you guys in Wisconson would have been under a few miles of ice, and it was mostly that ice melting that poor old Noah had so many problems with. And it's responsible for me living on the coast because if the ice hadn't melted there would be no coast.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Yeah, I can resonate with most of that Hallow. It;s interesting that after a Lifetime of not-so-good memories Christmas is taking on a different meaning. Although the climate has been changing here these past few years, historically winters full of cold and snow have been the norm. Gotta have something to warm the spirit on cold, dark nights. But the town is small, the air is certainly clean and fresh. Both open countryside and two coastlines meeting makes it a good place to be.

The last ice age you guys in Wisconson would have been under a few miles of ice, and it was mostly that ice melting that poor old Noah had so many problems with. And it's responsible for me living on the coast because if the ice hadn't melted there would be no coast.

the flowing ice brought a lot of small gifts here. Over the past few days I spent some time walking along the shoreline. And found some beautiful rocks. My favorite of my little rock hunt were 3 peach colored moon stones smoothed out thousands of years of wave movement. I am still debating if I should get them poilshed or leave them.