organsised religion and society

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by The Eagle

So you don’t value the sociopath’s divinity then?
How are you defining spirit here??
“will not always have access to any of that wisdom and growth during the current incarnation” – that wisdom that you consider wisdom?
“Current incarnation” – perhaps he might come back as a unicorn??



Traditionally wars are made for economic reasons, which serves different societies and therefore mankind – although later on in history they change it to mean something else. Independence wars, humanitarian etc etc.
What I mean about serving mankind – is that the objective of serving is what? Survival?? Well we have survived thus far – down to love and to war.
So when someone comes to war with you – love and compassion goes out the window?

So its not the objective that’s the important part but how we arrive?? Its only important if you value the “how” – perhaps it is best to think what do we as human beings as a whole group value as means to the end?
If the objective is life – then to repeat myself it goes on in sadness or in smiles.


But then that is a want. Not everybody wants that.
If we concentrate on what is needed – then we find a yardstick for all.
Of course, it relies on the overall “want” of what is needed. Now the overall want is decided by ALL human beings. Just as the overall need is decided too.
Love and compassion is not a “need” or a “want” for all human beings.


Likewise, my beliefs are built on my own experience and that’s all I can speak too. like anyone’s – that’s a given.
Let me ask you though to avoid crossed wires– how are you defining “spiritual maturity” and how can you possibly gauge that to other people walking different paths with different beliefs, different experiences?


Well how are you defining ego exactly? I do take issue with people that think that their ego is not ruling them. Perhaps a definition crossed wires thing again.
“That your divine source, your soul, be the aspect of you that leads” - Rather than your divine intelligence, or divine feet, or your divine hands I suppose?
The idea of a soul being somehow a thing that guides someone is down to belief. Like the good/bad ego thing. It’s a way of dividing up you own thoughts and departmentalising them in order to act on what you consider to be good. Make no mistake it is you and your “divine” ego that is doing that.


So how have you come to those conclusions – that consciousness survives after death and that the collective consciousness exists?
I personally believe in a collective consciousness. But that it is not some ancient spirit with mystical powers. the source of the collective consciousness is conscious life – once individuals die it is no longer part of the collective consciousness.


Hmmm… do you think a sociopath is a spiritual being?

I think that is telling though – it’s not what you might expect and require as social and spiritual being. Now apply that to yourself – for someone that disagrees with your definitions of “spiritual” – does your “golden mean” fall by the wayside – or are they wrong and you are right?


Because society wants, society needs or because of something else?


The question comes down to why? I think “we” decide what “we” want and that’s exactly how we have been living. We don’t “need” to live in peace do we.


I will pick up on intolerance there. For society to work intolerance has to exist. For example your sociopath – you have to be intolerant to lifestyles that don’t agree with the laws of the land yes? murderers, rapists, these kind of things. So yet again is intolerance bad as a concept?


Anyway you are trying to achieve something and you have the want. You have the need because of your want. The next stage is where does everyone else fit in – especially the ones that don’t want the same?

Hmmm...on the one hand, it seems you've understood many things very differently than I thought I had stated,
and certainly differently than I intended when I stated them. C'est la vie.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly as well. That may be.
Perhaps you have not been able to understand me because of your own mindset and perspective, which differs from mine.
Empathy and will, or motivation to find common ground in communication, also play a role.
The presence or lack of some or all of these will be barriers to understanding,
For this reason, I am willing to agree to disagree.

On the other hand, I generally disagree with many of your assumptions, your premise, your conclusions, and your interpretations of what I said.
Unfortunately I don't have time or inclination to explain further, because I feel I'd be restating myself in many cases.
But I respect your right to your opinion.

For this reason, I am also willing to agree to disagree. It's all good.
You are free to continue this conversation with someone else, and I wish you all the best.

peace & blessings,
7L