No God

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

BigJ, I believe we have a fundamental difference of perspective, owing to being different individuals with different experiences in this life and in other lifetimes. And that's fine...we each are where we are.

If we look only to the individual, or to the individual and how society functions "on top of" the individual, as a separate layer, then we can come to your perspective or to many other variants of it.

If we look at the individual and society as one cloth, as the product of our interbeing, then none of those lines you've drawn around the individual or society is real, enduring, or substantive. And the illuminated implications are vast and multifaceted.

In fact, I find the more deeply I have ventured into Buddhist philosophy, the more deeply and fully my perspectives are illuminated in these areas I've shared.
But wait, hahaha...there's only an infinity of diversity and multitudes remaining. I've only just BEGUN to penetrate some of the depths and the implications.

And I wish you all the best on your journey of discovery as well. So long as you don't hold rigidly or fixedly to your sanity, your certainty, your pride, your intellect, your habituated perspectives...then no worries.
As come what may, with the mutual support of your fellow travellers, you'll do just fine

Peace & blessings
7L

Some of your beliefs seem to deal with the distribution of wealth. This idea has a tendency to get out of hand. The Buddhist country of Cambodia in recent times experienced such a disaster. If you are not pushing for the distribution of wealth, please let me know.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by running

my view

there are spiritual gifts. there is spiritual ideas. there is bliss. and there is silence. staying out of spitiaul ideas is a good idea imo. spiritual material and so on is in the ideas in my view. not interesting to me. i stick with spiritual gifts, bliss and silence.

I gather you are not frequenting the “Spiritual Forums” for the purpose of using them as the source material for your book then, nor using “SF” as your field for ‘market research’ in efforts to find out which concepts and ideas would sell ……‘hook’ or ‘reach’ or be agreeable to most readers

Not that there would be anything ‘wrong’ about wanting to write a book ….. just saying that – in general - we might all think we are talking the same language and that we are here learning about ‘Buddhism’ – yet we might as well be speaking in different languages, because when our individual ‘agendas/intents/wills are different, we (in general) are often talking at cross purposes.

But I guess the most important thing is that we are aware of our own ‘agenda’ – what our own intent/will is.

*

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Just observing doesn’t do anything.

Well, to 'just observe' is to be aware without any reactivity, and that means no craving, clinging etc on one hand and no aversion, resistance etc on the other hand.

Observing or people watching does nothing spiritually.

If one has 'pure observation' in regard to others, it allows people to be the way they are.

You just lost your job along with your coworkers. You observe them, you observe you are upset, that they are upset but you tell yourself this is what is and that you have to accept it.


That’s nice but not a spiritual practice that will lead to anything. Cessation is about upsets that don’t arise because you have cleared them.

Upsets are reactions, and as Buddhism puts it, from feeling craving arises, but anyone can see that their reactivity creates a lot of unnecessary suffering. This is talked about in Buddhist philosophy as well in terms of craving being the cause of suffering, and 'craving' (tanha) includes both facets of desire and aversion.


As to what has cleared and not cleared, this related to sankara created by reaction/volition/kamma of the past. Hence emotional storms can and do arise from the storehouse of accumulated sankara, but you don't react to those storms - hence no craving/clinging - aversion/resistance, and the storms are free to blow. Of course such storms are impermanent, so they pass soon enough, just as any storm does. In this context equanimity is enhanced through the understanding of impermanence, and the statement on mindfulness: "ardent awareness with thorough understanding of impermanence free of aversion and craving toward the world" captures the essence of "what meditation is".

The process that you disagree with is called spiritual practices. Meditation and energy practices that completely change the way you experience and deal with the above situation. Process leads to a change in being.

I'm not involved in the agree/disagree dynamic, but by not reacting you fundamentally change how you deal with situations. Experience changes anyway, so I need not get involved in changing experience; then I'm just here and 'this is how it is'.

Here is an example of mindfulness and the stages one can expect from the practice.

Not against that, but I wouldn't advocate it. The post addresses the main things, feeling and mental contents, and it implies a mind/body symbiosis, so fair enough, and it is alighned with what I've been talking about up until the last paragraph, but even in the last paragraph they are basically saying find out whats true. It's just a little unrefined is all.

[Gem]

.......................

[running]

Originally Posted by sentient

I gather you are not frequenting the “Spiritual Forums” for the purpose of using them as the source material for your book then, nor using “SF” as your field for ‘market research’ in efforts to find out which concepts and ideas would sell ……‘hook’ or ‘reach’ or be agreeable to most readers

Not that there would be anything ‘wrong’ about wanting to write a book ….. just saying that – in general - we might all think we are talking the same language and that we are here learning about ‘Buddhism’ – yet we might as well be speaking in different languages, because when our individual ‘agendas/intents/wills are different, we (in general) are often talking at cross purposes.

But I guess the most important thing is that we are aware of our own ‘agenda’ – what our own intent/will is.

*

my grandfather once told me everyone has something to sell. i have contemplated that over the years.

i like to think myself as a salesperson of the bliss.

i like to think that crisscrossing the country the bliss that im enjoying may spread around. some folks may have a sip. some folks may drink it. some folks may become to live in its enjoyment.

i like to think that being an open vessel to the bliss allows her to do her work. so more and more people can be at peace and in joy.

i like to think that i don't have to be involved in what she does. which is a relief since i dont know anyways? except describing the experience of her. the not requiring us to be what somebody thinks we must be to deserve her. her love.

its my experience she is love itself. and that it can be called whatever we wish. she. he. god. divine. jesus. buddah. doesn't matter. i do get a lot of enjoyment expressing the experience of the bliss.

its my experince that her love conquers everything in all directions and time. so while we try to make things right. and try to train ourselves in ways to make things better. perhaps and probably, it's good, noteworthy, and helps. but generaly speaking i think thats sometimes just a lot of moving of things around. bliss doesn't work like that. she just wants to make everything into herself. no motive other than love itself. joy itself. spacious silence. and so on.

i guess my grandfather was right. or atleast in me. that is what i wish people to come to experience. and in that all the problems that once were. may still be. wont be forgotten. and things we call problems may always be. but all in the experience of spacious joy and silence.

no book. lol. but i must admit i love talking about her.lol

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

Why can’t the root cause cease to be through mindful observation and ongoing cessation by not giving energy to that which keeps you caught up in proces?

Well, basically, the cessation is you stopping, and everything continuing.

why can’t one witness the fullness of themselves moving through a full process moment to moment, without any attachment to any of it? Awareness allows for mindful observation, without interference in ones own process and with presence with what is.

That's a good description of mindfulness, and it's not a cessation of process, but you ceasing to get involved.

When your aware and able the meditation practice can be like this as a life experience, relating and connecting with life, observing deeper your own true nature through experiences that open up more in process.

To practice in this way, through all life moments is the perfect reflection and contemplative practice anyone can deepen through.

I have learned as someone who cleared blocks, through various means of energy practices, that even as this is effective, the life experience will show you more, it will show you why you set yourself up with this block to begin with, it will reveal choice not to go back into ‘old programming’ or ‘patterns’. Mindfulness is important in this way, as is awareness, as is equanimity to become like the ‘mountain’ ..

Yes, you develop a deep insight into the whole mechanism of blocks and up and programming.

Blocks are just the ‘release of the old energy’. Starting again to live clear and open, requires awareness of more than yourself alone, it requires discernment, understanding of life and building a deeper grounded presence with all that.

To just believe. ‘I’ve cleared the blocks’ energetically and that will keep you non reactive is holding a very limited understanding. The body moves through a very subtle awareness of self from there. It gets intricate, finer, more subtle, to become fully present and grounded as one.

You can rely on tools and others to activate and support your process, but the ultimate lived experience requires you as everything that shows its face to you, to become the ultimate self. every face you meet and every life experience will continue to meet you whether your open or holding blocks within.

Awareness and mindfulness as a life practice requires you beyond blocks to recognise yourself feeling openly without old programming, seeing fully without wounds in place, making you look away, but seeing things as they are. The open state feels and sees it all. You eventually have to rely on a way to manage and build deeper grounddd equanimity and awareness as that open state.

There are wounds and and blocks in the lifeform, but the one aware has no judgement on that whatsoever. Others can have their complexes and tendencies and it's OK.

I find it amusing your challenging someone like gem about his practice. If you’ve observed him more closely all the years you’ve known him, he would be the least likely I’d be concerned about with regards to practice..

I'm not involved in the argument, but people think my comments are struggling with right and wrong, so they think there is an argument going on, but I'm not even within the right vs wrong arena.


It's a different way of talking, see. I'm not here with a presupposed structure to the dialectic which is agree disagree right wrong, so when people try to take down near enough everything I say, there's actually nothing built up in the first place, and I keep saying it isn't true because I say so and even though I can prove I'm right by quoting Buddha, it isn't true because Buddha said it. It's true because it's quite obvious that you are aware and this is how it is. The only difference is I'm not adding on to that, actually, mindfulness will remove everything until only 'this' is left. Then it's only logical to say, if the entire attention is 'here with this', that's a very clear, focused and attentive mind... and isn't it true that 'this' is where you live?



You see how that can't be realised 'later on'? No one lives later on. The imaginary future me who is enlightened and purified is entirely fabricated by the powerful mind. Then there is remembered me who is supposed to be the same one as the future me, but past has gone by and future is not happening, so 'this' is 'it'.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by Gem

Then there is remembered me who is supposed to be the same one as the future me, but past has gone by and future is not happening, so 'this' is 'it'.

>>> Past >>>> Recall IN ( * i * ) Out Anticipate Application >>>

...forward >>>>...entropic-arrow-of-Time ----->----/\/\/\/\/\/ --->

<<<< Past Out ( *) i (* ) In <<< Future <<< Syntropic Containment of Time

>>> Balance-of-Soul> >>>>( * i * )<<< Equanimity-of-mind <<<<<

((( >>>Integral unification within context of finite whole existence...eternally...<<< )))

[sentient]

Originally Posted by running

my grandfather once told me everyone has something to sell. i have contemplated that over the years.

i like to think myself as a salesperson of the bliss.

i like to think that crisscrossing the country the bliss that im enjoying may spread around. some folks may have a sip. some folks may drink it. some folks may become to live in its enjoyment.

i like to think that being an open vessel to the bliss allows her to do her work. so more and more people can be at peace and in joy.

i like to think that i don't have to be involved in what she does. which is a relief since i dont know anyways? except describing the experience of her. the not requiring us to be what somebody thinks we must be to deserve her. her love.

its my experience she is love itself. and that it can be called whatever we wish. she. he. god. divine. jesus. buddah. doesn't matter. i do get a lot of enjoyment expressing the experience of the bliss.

its my experince that her love conquers everything in all directions and time. so while we try to make things right. and try to train ourselves in ways to make things better. perhaps and probably, it's good, noteworthy, and helps. but generaly speaking i think thats sometimes just a lot of moving of things around. bliss doesn't work like that. she just wants to make everything into herself. no motive other than love itself. joy itself. spacious silence. and so on.

i guess my grandfather was right. or atleast in me. that is what i wish people to come to experience. and in that all the problems that once were. may still be. wont be forgotten. and things we call problems may always be. but all in the experience of spacious joy and silence.

no book. lol. but i must admit i love talking about her.lol

Since I do not wish to sound like a broken record:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqtb6XBBBRc

At this very moment I am selling Mandalas, now being a solemn Mandala propagandist …….
https://i.redd.it/zm868s1pe1901.jpg

*

Which 'Buddhism' pocket do you relate to the best Hinayana, Mahayana or Vajrayana?

Special for you running, I’d recommend Vajrayana/Tantra. (since I know next to nothing about the other yanas ….. aaaand because Tantra deals with energy).

Everything is seen/experienced as All-encompassing Spacious Silence (if you like) plus All-encompassing Energy. Shiva + Shakti I assume.
Hence no human qualities are seen as obstructions. Everything is ultimately seen as energy and can be included as workable.

*

Yet.
What do you envision a Mandala of a heroin addict looking like?
I see heroin addiction as its centre and the person having next to no free will to their behaviour.

What does a narcissist Mandala look like? (I’m familiar with this, since I spent the latter part of my childhood in a narcissist household).

Ask a narcissist to go within and discern what their ‘agenda’ is.
Does not happen.

In Buddhism – ‘we’ stop looking for happiness outside of ourselves and go inwards.

But because of the trauma suffered in early childhood, a narcissist, like a broken record does not grow beyond the emotional dependency to the outside world i.e. cannot independently go within to find ‘happiness’, so all you will hear is the propaganda about how you should be like this and not be like that ….. or how ‘humanity’ should or should not be in relation to them.

There is no other agenda/choice for them, but to try to be the drummer and its beat to everybody around them should dance to (i.e. propaganda, no matter how IQ .... book)

What does an egoic Mandala look like?
To me it looks very much like the narcissistic example above, even if the ego pretends "Buddhist Mindfulness Practice"

What does 'Enlightened Mandala' look like?
If one does not have a free will – one will not be able to surrender it to "THAT".

*

[running]

Originally Posted by sentient

Since I do not wish to sound like a broken record:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqtb6XBBBRc

At this very moment I am selling Mandalas, now being a solemn Mandala propagandist …….
https://i.redd.it/zm868s1pe1901.jpg

*

Which 'Buddhism' pocket do you relate to the best Hinayana, Mahayana or Vajrayana?

Special for you running, I’d recommend Vajrayana/Tantra. (since I know next to nothing about the other yanas ….. aaaand because Tantra deals with energy).

Everything is seen/experienced as All-encompassing Spacious Silence (if you like) plus All-encompassing Energy. Shiva + Shakti I assume.
Hence no human qualities are seen as obstructions. Everything is ultimately seen as energy and can be included as workable.

*

Yet.
What do you envision a Mandala of a heroin addict looking like?
I see heroin addiction as its centre and the person having next to no free will to their behaviour.

What does a narcissist Mandala look like? (I’m familiar with this, since I spent the latter part of my childhood in a narcissist household).

Ask a narcissist to go within and discern what their ‘agenda’ is.
Does not happen.

In Buddhism – ‘we’ stop looking for happiness outside of ourselves and go inwards.

But because of the trauma suffered in early childhood, a narcissist, like a broken record does not grow beyond the emotional dependency to the outside world i.e. cannot independently go within to find ‘happiness’, so all you will hear is the propaganda about how you should be like this and not be like that ….. or how ‘humanity’ should or should not be in relation to them.

There is no other agenda/choice for them, but to try to be the drummer and its beat to everybody around them should dance to (i.e. propaganda, no matter how IQ .... book)

What does an egoic Mandala look like?
To me it looks very much like the narcissistic example above, even if the ego pretends "Buddhist Mindfulness Practice"

What does 'Enlightened Mandala' look like?
If one does not have a free will – one will not be able to surrender it to "THAT".

*

thank you for sharing your thoughts! you brought up some very interesting things. since i dont know about Mandela's or what one is i will just speak from what i think i know. hope that is ok. but if you wish to sell me one. your welcome to educate me. back when i was in sales there was an old sang, "nobody likes to be sold but everybody likes to buy." sales through education i have found to be best.

i think both the narcissist and the heroine addict and everyone and everything has only one desire. and that is to find god. what is everything searching for? joy and peace.

why don't more people just put their efforts towards god itself? how could they?

during my journey the process of opening up to the bliss. i had my gut. i had my intuition. and i had my guidance that would sometimes talk through me. what i wanted though was people to talk to about this crazy thing. it must be crazy i thought because its joy irrespective of what is. so i began a taking an intuitive healing class. it was great and helpful. but not really for or about what i was experiencing therefore interested in. my guidance began speaking through me while we were all sitting in class. it feels powerful in joy as this thing beigins saying, "we look over here, we search over here, and yet nobody knows what it is? ha ha. nobody even knows what it is." it went something like that. what it was saying is how nobody knows about bliss. and its true in that i spent several years of experiencing before i finally knew for sure what it was. because spirituality is about everything but. and those that know dont speak enough and loud enough. the current programming of the people at this time will associate it in a negative context. i would bet many people on here think me in negative ways and some may even think i do drugs and so on. im not bothered by any of that. for a variety of reasons. mostly having to do with compassion. its my belief many people who have drug problems would have a spiritual practice instead. except that, "nobody even knows what it is."

[running]

continued. and i appreciate your humor in the cartoon and video.