objectivity, seeing what you want to see, and the awakening of intelligence

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by happy soul

As he says, 'Nothing is more important than feeling good.'

in my mind that is THE biggest lie going around. But don't mind me... back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by happy soul

Miss Hepburn, are you familiar with 'The Holy Spirit's Interpretation of the New Testament'? (NTI for short)

It's channeled by the Holy Spirit and published by The Foundation for the Holy Spirit. It doesn't have a workbook, but it's hailed by many as a great masterpiece on par with ACIM, and as a companion to it. I'm currently reading it and it's really amazing.

How could I not know about something that sounds so amazing!
I have to get my antennae up!

[happy soul]

Originally Posted by Baile

And going back to your first post, I would say all of it is difficult if not impossible to grasp unless one has reached the point on their path where they have renounced hardened belief, in all its forms.

Something that's absolutely necessary is release of lies and illusions. Most people have many beliefs, which they may or may not be conscious of, that are very negative and completely false. Beliefs like that, which may be difficult to consciously recognize, must be let go of. Meditation might be the only way to do that. In meditation, all kinds of thoughts and beliefs arise and are let go of. In Zen they call it 'polishing the mirror'.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by happy soul

Something that's absolutely necessary is release of lies and illusions.

This may be hard to believe but, once again, I once had a supersensible Higher Self experiece pertaining to exactly this. On two separate occasions in my life, a voice -- which I have identified as my Higher Self -- spoke to me and directed me. This voice was a clear as somone standing a few feet away and conversing. And on one of the two occasions, it even drew my attention by calling me by my name.

Years ago I was a student of an esoteric cult-like philosophy that taught a number of extreme occult-Christian belief principles. One day I found myself in a situation where I was causing others a great deal of distress, due to my imposing my rigid spiritual beliefs upon them. In the midst of the chaos I had created, the voice suddenly spoke to me. It essentially said, "Why do you believe all that? It is only what you have chosen to believe is true."

Exactly like my other story, it was like waking suddenly from a dream. In that moment, I knew and understood. I could see I had been living for years in a belief-illusion of my own creation. The Bible is an occult manuscript, and provides descriptive clues to this and other soul-awakening processes: "At once something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight." That is how these Higher Self awakening processes often happen: at once, in an instant, a rebirth, the beginning of true sight.

Now regarding your quoted comment above: again, it's important to understand this process takes place on the deepest soul-level, and is not really something one can just arbitrarily choose to do. It is a paradigm shift in consciousness that completely alters ones entire life view, as well as their approach to spiritual knowledge. Simply put, it involves the transformation of abstract thinking and intellectual belief, into experiential Higher Self wisdom.

And as pointed out, this transformation can and often does happen in an instant, from one moment to the next. Yes, ultimately it is necessary as you said. But as we have been discussing, the question is can one ever force such shifts in consciousness? Or do they just happen organically? It's a karmic question as I see it. Each individual is here to experience and learn for themselves. To say this or that is absolutely neccessary, requires a kind of karmic disclaimer: Yes, it is necessary, but it is not necessary for every individual in this particular lifetime. We have many ilfetimes to learn what we need to learn.

That's how I see it.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Baile

... this transformation can and often does happen in an instant, from one moment to the next. Yes, ultimately it is necessary as you said. But as we have been discussing, the question is can one ever force such shifts in consciousness? Or do they just happen organically? It's a karmic question as I see it. Each individual is here to experience and learn for themselves. To say this or that is absolutely neccessary, requires a kind of karmic disclaimer: Yes, it is necessary, but it is not necessary for every individual in this particular lifetime. We have many lifetimes to learn what we need to learn.

Humility regarding the possible/likely partiality and incompleteness of one's 'beliefs', and hence of one's 'perceptions', can/may/often does 'facilitate' and 'enable' such 'transformation' process.

One can 'effect' ie. 'invite' change by 'praying' - i.e. positively orienting one's 'attitude' - in said regard by desiring/wishing something like: "Open my eyes to whatever it is that I may be (probably am) not 'seeing' or 'seeing' in a distorted way which 'seeing better' will result in my living more fully/lovingly/beneficently."

'Old' de-finite-ions will be dis-solved (as you see through (meaning past) them. And, instead of just repeating the same ol' soul-generated 'pattern' over and over again, you will board the rocket-ship (the evolutionary journey) which is the 'ride' of (your) 'Life'!

[Baile]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Humility regarding the possible/likely partiality and incompleteness of one's 'beliefs', and hence of one's 'perceptions', can/may/often does 'facilitate' and 'enable' such 'transformation' process.

Yes, that fits with a foundational understanding I came across years ago: that spiritual awakening is in truth a moral development process. The idea is that for every step on the knowledge path, the spiritual student must take three steps on the moral self-development path. Humility is very much a moral self-directive.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Baile

Yes, that fits with a foundational understanding I came across years ago: that spiritual awakening is in truth a moral development process. The idea is that for every step on the knowledge path, the spiritual student must take three steps on the moral self-development path. Humility is very much a moral self-directive.

High-Five, Fellow-Bro!

[happy soul]

Baile, I've also heard a voice speak to me, which imo was definitely God. As with your experience, the voice was as clear as a human's, and I heard it physically (with my ears). It was a deep, beautiful, profoundly loving voice which I feel sure was God Himself. (I also believe the Divine Mother could do that.....I see the Father and the Mother as two forms of the same Being)

I've heard of others who have spoken with God and heard God physically. Paramhansa Yogananda said he used to do so.

Davidsun, I agree that humility is very important, especially these days. And what I mean by that is that it's important for people to express divine love to others and not to 'attack'. People should interact with each other lovingly, never hatefully. It matters more today than ever before because of the circumstances on earth. The survival of humankind may depend on it.

Humility is far more a matter of how you TREAT other people, of how you interact with others, than it is of how you feel about yourself. It's not about thinking you're not great or special, or thinking you are those things, it's about respecting other people - it's about not mistreating others.

Attack is the epitome of arrogance.

True humility is always careful with others' feelings.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by happy soul

Davidsun, I agree that humility is very important, especially these days. And what I mean by that is that it's important for people to express divine love to others and not to 'attack'. People should interact with each other lovingly, never hatefully. It matters more today than ever before because of the circumstances on earth. The survival of humankind may depend on it.

Humility is far more a matter of how you TREAT other people, of how you interact with others, than it is of how you feel about yourself. It's not about thinking you're not great or special, or thinking you are those things, it's about respecting other people - it's about not mistreating others.

Attack is the epitome of arrogance.

True humility is always careful with others' feelings.

As one who (sometimes) gets into 'warrior' mode, I disagree with what I (righty or wrongly) 'see' as your conflation of 'humility' with 'respect', HS. I always know that may be 'mistaken' and, while I 'respect' the fact that an opponent - a sullier! - of truth, love, life, etc. may have 'reasons' for such opposition and/or sullying, I think 'serving' (the truth, love, life, etc.) sometimes calls for a degree of ruthlessness in addressing egregious instances of the same.

A couple of quotes to reinforce my point:

(1) From the book, Initiation, by Elizabeth Haich (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/619040.Initiation ):

"'When absolutely constant and completely impartial love radiates from you to all creatures, your love will never again be mixed with personal inclinations or antipathies. You will consider everything from the standpoint of the whole, and when the interests of the whole community are at variance with those of individual persons, you will unhesitatingly defend the cause of the group with ruthless disregard for the interests of individuals. But this ruthlessness must always be rooted in universal, divine love; it must never spring from personal antipathy."

And (2) from The Bhagavad Gita:

"Thou must look at thy duty. Nothing can be more welcome to a soldier than a righteous war. Therefore to waver in this resolve is unworthy, O*Arjuna!
Blessed are the soldiers who find their opportunity. This opportunity has opened for thee the gates of heaven.
Refuse to fight in this righteous cause, and thou wilt be a traitor, lost to fame, incurring only sin."

Not that I think the issue you (implicitly) raise is completely resolved by what's in these quotes, HS - I don't.

Also, I don't think everyone is cut out to be a'warrior' (for truth, love, Life, etc.) - there are of course many other ways of 'servng'.

[happy soul]

Davidsun,

Something that's definitely not a coincidence is that this morning I was thinking about how I have an 'idealized view of love'. I was thinking that that might not be good.

I acquired my idea of love largely from the teachings of Jesus, and also J. Krishnamurti. Both of them preached love in very idealistic terms.

For example, Jesus taught to 'turn the other cheek', and, 'if your neighbor sues you for your coat, give him your cloak also'. 'Love your enemies.' 'To look at a woman with lust is adultery.' And, 'If your eye offends you, pluck it out, for it's better that you lose an eye than you be cast into hell fire.' Certainly these teachings convey an idealized view of love.

Krishnamurti also taught love in the most extreme terms. 'To obey out of fear is a form of violence.' 'To say, I am a Hindu, or a Christian, separates you from others and is violence.'

But in total honesty, I think, although they had a good point, maybe these teachings are too fanatical or extreme. Maybe they're too idealistic.

You could be right about 'ruthlessness based in divine love'.

Or maybe it's right for some people but not others.