[sea-dove]

Originally Posted by Rolcsi

1. What's the difference between AP and lucid dreaming?

Astral projection is when one leaves the physical body in the astral one, its functioning in your astral body. The astral world is a very real dimension.

Lucid dreaming is dreaming, its your subconciousness creating the expereince along with your normal concious mind. (I think it may take place in the mental body but of cause that also impacts upon the astral realm as all thoughts do)

These are very similar states of being but also slightly different eg to do wake induced lucid dreaming I have to let my normal minds go a little (relax the mind) to get into the state (so to start to allow the subconciousness to start creating a dream). You kind of need like daydream state.

With Astral projection, one doesnt want to let ones mind go in the same way hence enter a dream state, but rather more mental focus is often involved to move into a AP.

I personally find that if Ive been practicing one of these states it is hard to move into the other as you get used to the state you usually use. Also if one has done lucid dreaming and used to doing lucid dreaming, as it becomes more natural to go into that state then the other, it actually risks then lucid dreaming you are astral!

Or going astral but having a bit of lucid dreaming going on at the same time (so getting imput from both your own subconciousness creations and some imput coming in from ones astral body too). Just like a person can daydream during the day when awake, one can start to dream while astral (and move from the AP into a LD).

And it is a legitimate question, how do you know you are not lucid dreaming, I mean when you LD, you're still aware, and you have so much control, although that's another good question, how much control can you have in LD?

I know as Ive been able to vertify things Ive seen when astral projected. Find out things I wasnt supposed to know etc.

The other way Ive often been able to tell is they just feel very slightly different but I cant describe it (thou I cant always tell via that some of my LDs may of been APs, if Im not sure and need to know, one can always check something out and then vertify once one awakes). My LDs are very vivid, just as vivid as my astral projections and I also keep very good awareness in them (think like normal) but its usually easy for me to tell its a LD.

Its also like a sense of knowing (for those who have good sense of knowing about stuff in life at times). I know not all have a strong sense of that come in.

Also, I'd be interested to know a method that works for inducing LD but is guaranteed not to work for AP, and vica versa.

umm that's a hard one as a persons body will probably just go into whichever state its used to doing as the states are so close. (I suggest to anyone ever wanting to do AP to not try LD first as it can screw up things for you, become experienced with AP first).

I dont think there is a method which can guarentee as a person may be strongly drawn to one or the other on just getting into a relaxed enough state. Also things like AP and LD methods are very individual too and what method works well for one, may not work for another.

AP methods usually are which is focusing outside of the body and focusing strongly on that can be good. Shift your focus to a spot.

And is there a reality check test while you're in them that can tell you without fail which one you're experiencing?

Put a physical card face up on the top of your physical wardrobe without looking at it (if its there for a time that is great, it will cause a stronger astral counterpart). When you get out of body float upwards and take a look to see what the card is. When you get back to body take a look and see if you were correct.

With this test do not do it ever again in the same place as the previous cards (or the ones you did in the future) could leave an astral imprint upon that space so causing a wrong card to be seen. Ive clearly read something on my wardrobe top which proved my expeience was real, someone once hid a gift voucher there and I saw and read it thou I didnt know it was there before the AP, saw it while I was floating up near the ceiling and then went over to look. It was just like seeing it physically.

[/quote] if AP is your awareness leaving your body (which is exactly what LD is) while experiencing objective reality (which is supposed to distinguish it from LD), then how come the existence of the soul is not science fact? Can't they do a test where you AP to the other side of the world or into a locked room and tell the scientist the number on the card? [/quote]

Ive actually once went to a AP demo by a very experienced occultic person who actually demonstrated he could use AP and see what people on the very other side of the room had written. Thing is not many can AP at will successfully every time. My APs used to tend to be usually spontanous. (Im in far more control with LDs).

I also think those who do have this gift, dont care if others believe it or not hence not out to try to scientfically prove under like scientific conditions. That also can attract unwanted attention. We had the gov people from America turn up here in Australia at one of my teachers bilocation workshops (like remote viewing), that teacher of mine apparently had a black helicoper try to run him off the road too a couple of times. He died in his early 50s. Maybe via psychic attack! He'd attracted too much attention.

You'd be surprised how easily it is to get unwanted attention if you become know about and you have a certain gift. (I havent even mastered things but personally got targeted by a group who tried to recruit me, I would of never believed it if if hadnt happened to me).

I've heard of many NDEs where the patients can quote word by word the conversations that doctors had in rooms far away from the operation room. Similarly remote viewing has had some convincing cases, isn't that AP in a way, aren't all of these the same thing? Getting more and more confused here, so I'll stop here and let an (or more) expert(s) crack on and sort this out for me. Many thanks.

With RV one can say one is projecting ones consciousness elsewhere, in the old psi schools this was previously called travelling clairvoyance, a preconcessor to RV. RV thou people may not be aware of it or not, one is sending some of ones astral substance to a place and then using it to feed back info (throu the subconsciousness)

RV the way the American gov was doing it, seems to work a lot throu the subconciousness thou more then what the traditional occultists used to get as those gov people, they see often symbols that they need to then deciper. Most of them didnt have the spiritual advancement to be able to see by RV as the objects actually are.

Hence why they were so interested in my teachers bilocation method as we when we bilocate, we dont see things via symbols at all but how things are. The gov people RV people also had no idea how to target in on something properly either, Im sure they learnt a lot from their gatecrashing the workshop (possibly also an attempt to intimidate my teacher of that time). Note this happened after they'd made it known they'd closed down their program, THEY LIE.