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Old 01-04-2012, 11:36 PM
whoguy423 whoguy423 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 22
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UndercoverElephant
There isn't one which is not entirely circular (e.g. "consciousness is subjective experience.") The word "consciousness" could only mean what we use to mean by being given a private ostensive definition i.e. we "internally point" to our own conscious experiences and associate them with the word "consciousness." We then assume other people experience something similar and call it the same thing.

Ludwig Wittgenstein famously claimed the above was impossible, although it's not quite as simple as that.



Whether or not animals (and which animals) are conscious does matter. Or at least it does if we care about the potential for animals to suffer.


Thank you for your reply and insight UndercoverElephant.

According to what we can observe, animals and perhaps plants have the ability to sense pain and suffering. I guess it all get's right down to the ability for the species to survive, so sensing pain is a way to alert the animal of danger and allow it to evolve on to the next generation.

I really do want to get to the crux of where conscious thought comes from. I know this is impossible to answer, so it is totally fine to let it lie here.

In reply to the discussion about waves of energy, this is exactly string theory or m-theory.

In this theory, all particles are modelled as infinitely small vibrating strings of energy. These strings can be a closed string (circle) or open string (length of string) and can even be a vibrating surface called a brane. Because these strings are not points of zero (old model of particles), therefore, mathematically, divide by zero does not occur, hence mathematical calculations and predictions can be made from these models. In the old model, if energy exists as a point zero, it will have infinite energy density, therefore makes no mathematical sense, hence useless.... something string theory overcomes.

As to whether these models are in fact real or just a model, that is for the CERN accelerator to find out.

My personal belief is that at the level of ultimate reality, the real reality, all things are just waves and vibrations of electrostatic, electromagnetic and gravitational energy. Because the universe has expanded and cooled since it's birth, it causes these energies to settle into particles, radiation and pretty much what we see today in the universe.

Quantum fluctuations in space are responsible for whether a particle appears here or there from the cooling of the universe.

Now, if your still with me.... Quantum fluctuations in any space just happen... Over time, they just happen. Is there an intelligence to it? Is it totally random?

Is this quantum fluctuation responsible for consciousness? Does the complex brain which is highly reliant on electromagnetic activity lend itself to connecting into this strange part of space? Are memories stored in this space?

I ask this, because I have an interest in AI, and to me, true AI will never ever be realized, simply because we have no idea where the origin of consciousness arises from.

Advocates of AI say if they can model the brain completely using a super super super powerful computer, then true AI will arise.... I think this is a complete fallacy because that computer would never ever think outside it's programming.... unlike our imagination which can create totally original works and solutions.

Last edited by whoguy423 : 02-04-2012 at 12:39 AM.
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