[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I have to disagree with you here, 7 - in the sense that "All roads ultimately 'lead' home." The 'way' you are advocating (as not being 'wrong') is just one 'way', IMO. What is called 'God', which could just as well be called 'Love', 'Light' etc., etc., etc. is BOTH 'imminent' and 'transcendant'. And one has to begin/start any 'journey' from wherever one is at present. All too many (IMO) try to get 'there' (where you speak of) by 'adopting' the kind of 'perspective' and 'attitude' you promote as being 'authentic' when they are not (yet) at the point in their soul's journey where such perspective and attitude is 'natural' (i.e. truly 'organic'). They are, at best, 'pretenders' in such regard, and as a result don't actually open themselves up to the kinds of experiences which, if and as 'digested', would result in their becoming authentically so. I suggest that any reader who 'agrees' with the quite eloquently-rationalized 'message' that you present 'check' to see if what I say in regards to the authenticity vs. pretense dynamics possibly being in play.

I offer my 'teaching' in the above regard in form of a 'story' (pertaining to the dynamics of desire and loss) I once heard, to wit: " 'God' 'gives' you everything you could possibly love and desire and then one by one takes them away from you until all that you are left with is Love Itself!"

My advice: Though 'men' (males-principle oriented psyches) may take more than one lifetime to 'reach' the point where they become dispassionately 'loving' (there are also those who do that in the course of 'maturing' in any given lifetime, IMO) , watch that you don't fall into the 'trap' of seeking/trying/aiming to 'leap-frog' the process by avoiding 'passion' in the 'name' of only being 'committed' to 'true' love - especially not in a 'holier than though' mode which, IMO, may really 'kill' (i.e. 'stop') the process of becoming Love Itself. Such 'avoidance' a 'trap' many 'women' (female-principle oriented psyches) fall into, IMO, which is why it makes sense to me that one has to incarnate and experience both 'ways' to 'get' to 'wholeness' (which is different than what many think and feel is 'holiness', I think).

My 'sense' is and so I am betting that Kerubiel is closer to being/becoming and so will get there sooner than many of the 'holier' (seeming) folks 'here'. His unabashed 'boldness' in the above regard has opened the doorway to heaven to him, I think. Not that I know everything, so I don't know for sure.

Davidsun, hello there!
First, I appreciate your input and your willingness to engage, as I do Kerubiel's engagement. I think it's very important to be open. And it's also very important to ask for directions when your intention to get there is sincere and yet you are misdirected at every turn (by mainstream society, and by most men you know) with regard to respecting and honouring the humanity of women, and in particular their highest good.

Second ...I understand what you say from your perspective far better than you could know...particularly since you don't know me, hahaha

I have had more prior lifetimes as men than as women. And YES I was cad once but only in the first one, LOL...I learnt that lesson and the true extent of the fallout early one. Long story...extremely painful. I do understand, and yes I have always had a vast energetic component of fire in my makeup, no matter the lifetime. Living a life of integrity and beauty is not easy...you commit to yourself and to your world and to who you are at centre every day. Sometimes it's difficult. You struggle. And I realised -- and IMO we all eventually realise -- that the truth and the beauty is in the union of my heart, my mind, my body, and my soul. Not in just my body. Or even just my heart, if the context is dishonourable or degrading or exploitative either for me or for others.

But you cannot get by without harnessing the strength or else it will consume you. You certainly need fortified elements of earth, water, and metal to balance the fire. Groundedness, strength of heart and spirit, and discipline and reflection. From a place of balance, we find that authentic love, sublime joy, AND bliss and passion all go very well together. Like bread and butter. Action and reflection, similarly. Yin and yang (or, yang and yin).

You don't deny or tamp down your passion...you transmute your heart and your very being such that your passion is authentically loving, rather than angry or cruel or sadistic or addictive or exploitative/self-serving or violent, etc. It's all about balance and equanimity, and allowing your bliss and your passion to flow freely in service to heart and mind, allowing you to both love and honour (and not use or exploit or mindlessly engage with) others.

I have a deep and balanced heart, and I'm more rational and probably more courageous than most men I know...that includes risking life and limb on behalf of others, as well as manifesting courage of heart in being and doing authentic love. Whilst being a mum, sole support. And yes, I "look" very girly and I do have to play that way down. Stereotypes are largely based on cultural context and for many, on appearances and other superficials...as a result, they are easily transcended by those who are consciously walking their paths. Our inherent iniquities are another story altogether, and our current culture exploits our weaknesses in particularly vicious and destructive ways.

A person in balance has both male and female within. Most of my lifetimes as men, I lived in societies with a much greater balance and parity between men and women. We partnered on a foundation of authentic love, which required that I as a large, powerful man be emotionally and spiritually mature and centred, so that I could be disciplined and authentically loving and seek the highest good of ALL woman equally to myself, and especially my partner. So that I had the strength of heart to be genuine and real, and to love and give with all my heart and all my soul and all my might (just as the saying goes ) to the moment, to myself, to my words and deeds, and to those I loved most.

It is doable, living with integrity and honour in all areas of life, without continually cherry picking around sex and touch. It is regularly practised by a heart-centred humanity throughout all the universes, living with sexual restraint, integrity, and purity of heart and being...and yes striving for chastity, until and unless you freely commit to a life partner in authentic love. Because of the destructive fallout I thoughtlessly but very selfishly caused, that was always the goal for me as a man after my first go-round. It was other areas in which I failed, hahaha...but not that one.

IMO, as a man in past lives, a man is far more empowered and masculine and balanced and strong when he freely chooses committed and authentically loving partnerships. That has been my experience based on screwing up and on doing it right, hahaha! When he freely chooses how to honour his being AND that of his partner. When he freely chooses love and the bliss of a sacred, centred sexuality...versus an addictive and/or violent, degraded "porn"/bestial approach certainly. And also versus "casual" self-indulgent degradation of self and others through the normative promiscuity and exploitation of others. All of which our mainstream culture openly promotes as ok and good. It's a very insidious lie, a misdirection of the most caustic sort, IMO, because it tells men it's ok to indulge your weaknesses and exploit your own vulnerabilities and those of others.

It is key to a man's most basic development as a soul, harnessing our passions and using them for good and in service to the good of all. Simply because men must rise to their centre to overcome baseness, addiction, and exploitation of others for sex (whereas the journey for women is different) does not mean it's not still good and true and beautiful. And necessary AND completely doable.

We all need to support one another in harnessing our power and managing our ingrained weaknesses. Not with bro code/mainstream cultural norms -- but by acknowledging the divine and inherent dignity and worth of every person...especially with regard to those society deems less worthy and "therefore" less deserving of dignity. And those things go hand-in-hand, with the outcome very simply depending on the choices we make in each moment, day by day.

Living by means of "the way" (as it's known in the east), in authentic love for all equally to the self, makes you a better man, a fuller and more deeply human version of yourself. It is simply that our heavy-handed, hierarchical, power-over history to date has not traditionally presented an free and equitable context or a culture of parity within which to realise these truths. Nor has our exploitative, utilitarian, amoral modern society presented a healthy alternative context. It's important to realise the misdirection we come to, and here I speak particularly for the misdirection for men on their spiritual paths. The misdirection of women (to engage in easy indulgence of men's demands for sex and touch, perhaps even to manipulate men's weaknesses whilst pimping yourself out) is another discussion in itself, LOL.

I do sometimes hear affirmation from men -- actually, I hear loads of it from most decent men I speak to on this general topic (not about my past lives). Mostly only when we speak in person, though, and they feel they can be honest. In the past, however, most of it has not been offered freely -- though they freely agree, usually. Do you know what I'd really like to hear? LOADS more of it :) !!! Spoke with ownership and reflection and clarity. I'd love to hear more men speaking freely about their realisation of the manipulation and misdirection the current culture offers their hearts and souls, particularly with regard to how they treat the other half of humanity.

About the truth and beauty of integrity, about the need for truth and beauty in their lives more generally. About how they deserve that, and how they are that, at centre, and most importantly, how they can begin to live there day-to-day and manifest that in their lives through their own choices and struggles.

About how the struggle itself to be truth and beauty, to be who they are at centre...is beautiful, and good, and true and worth engaging in with all their hearts, souls, and might. About their desire to realise authentic love with others and not just for sexual purposes.

Peace & blessings
7L