[Gem]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

So what do the wise see?

I have no idea.

Do the wise who claim to see otherwise, see outside of the mind?
Is there anyone here who these words stand out to them see this outside of the mind?

Not too sure about that.

It seems contradictory, ignorance is replaced by knowing but knowing could not involve the mind else it would be more ignorance.

I think knowing can be misconstrued as knowledge we acquire, so I prefer to use the word 'insight' for the realisations that enhance wisdom, and these sorts of realisations are the learning which transforms you. These don't set as aquired knowledge per se... because obviously, learning everything that Buddha ever said doesn't make one wise... but realising things tacitly through the real lived experience does.

I get it that people believe this and relate to it that way but how could one trust anything they see if this is true.

It's not so much what we see and experience, because that in itself doesn't reveal anything, but to see deeply can reveal the fundamentally momentary nature of experience.

I wonder too if you lived on an island and never heard of such things if you would naturally explore this.
Just some thoughts of mine.

Probably not because there would be no teachings like 'Buddhism' to fuel the delusions that perpetuate the idiosyncrasies of the religion. I often query, what is there to look for at all? Isn't 'this' enough? And really, I become much calmer and more alert when I just stay here with what happens to be going on.

I advocate a meditation practice, but don;t make it important let alone necessary. It's just healthy and it makes the day a little bit better, the mind a bit calmer, the attention a little more alert, the disposition somewhat less irate. It can open things up a bit, you know, keep in touch with yourself.