[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

So what do the wise see? Do the wise who claim to see otherwise, see outside of the mind?
Is there anyone here who these words stand out to them see this outside of the mind?
It seems contradictory, ignorance is replaced by knowing but knowing could not involve the mind else it would be more ignorance.
I get it that people believe this and relate to it that way but how could one trust anything they see if this is true.
I wonder too if you lived on an island and never heard of such things if you would naturally explore this.
Just some thoughts of mine.

Taking this from another thread where I was writing about Rigpa.

To give you an idea, I will share some of my experience of the observer as you mentioned.



The first thing most people experience when they have realized silence to one degree or another in daily life is what we term The Witness. It is like we have a freedom from judgments, from our thoughts, we can observe them and not be so attached to them.



With increased depth we begin to feel that movement of thoughts silent or not as flows of energy within us. For me this was at my 3rd eye and the movement or flows felt like the twirling wind of a fan flowing through me. Just like Norbu describes one can rest or jump in that movement and it is a freeing of attachments, they liberate you could say and you are in a state of very blissful clarity.



Notice how so far each is like a flow of energy we are noticing that we can become free of and yet with increased depth we are able to reside back in it or get caught up back in it.



The Witness we have realized silence and are able to notice our thoughts, with increased depth we notice those thoughts are flows of energy. Another deeper step.



The person Tom, me and all that makes up this person called Tom is nothing more than flows of energy that we are attached to. It is nothing more than another bigger thought that we are caught up in. To realize this is not to step beyond such flows and rest in another movement or to jump into something else. Would that not be dualistic?

All things are energy, that we are caught up in. This world is no different than ones thoughts, the "I" as described above. What we are is beyond all of that.

So the Buddha is talking about realizing Void=Form and Form=Void. Void being silence and form being energy which is everything. When you are attached you are caught up in it. The wise is the one who has realized his true nature.